Discussion:
"More Than 3 Billion People in the World Are Being Condemned to a Premature Death ..." (Castro)
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
Barry Schier
2007-03-29 20:01:29 UTC
Permalink
GRANMA
March 28, 2007

OFFICIAL TRANSLATION

Reflections from the Commander-in-Chief

MORE THAN THREE BILLION PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE BEING
CONDEMNED TO A PREMATURE DEATH FROM HUNGER AND THIRST.

It is not an exaggeration; this is rather a conservative figure. I
have meditated for quite a long time on that after the meeting held
by President Bush with the US automakers.

The sinister idea of turning foodstuffs into fuel was definitely
established as the economic strategy of the US foreign policy on
Monday, March 26th last.

A wire service issued by the AP, a US information agency with
world-wide coverage, literally reads:

WASHINGTON (AP), March 26 - President Bush touted the benefits of
"flexible fuel" vehicles running on ethanol and biodiesel on Monday,
meeting with automakers to boost support for his energy plans. Bush
said a commitment by the leaders of the domestic auto industry to
double their production of flex-fuel vehicles could help motorists
shift away from gasoline and reduce the nation's reliance on imported
oil.

"That's a major technological breakthrough for the country," Bush
said after inspecting three alternative vehicles. If the nation wants
to reduce gasoline use, he said "the consumer has got to be in a
position to make a rational choice."

The president urged Congress to "move expeditiously" on legislation
the administration recently proposed to require the use of 35 billion
gallons of alternative fuels by 2017 and seek higher fuel economy
standards for automobiles.

Bush met with General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick
Wagoner, Ford Motor Co. chief executive Alan Mulally and
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group chief executive Tom LaSorda. They
discussed support for flex-fuel vehicles, attempts to develop ethanol
from alternative sources like switchgrass and wood chips and the
administration's proposal to reduce gas consumption by 20 percent in
10 years.

The discussions came amid rising gasoline prices. The latest Lundberg
Survey found the nationwide average for gasoline has risen 6 cents
per gallon in the past two weeks to $2.61. I think that reducing and
recycling all fuel and electricity operated engines is an urgent and
elemental necessity of all humanity. The dilemma is not in the
reduction of energy costs, but in the idea of turning foodstuffs into
fuel.

Today we know with accurate precision that one ton of corn can only
render as an average 413 liters of ethanol (109 gallons), a figure
that may vary according to the latter's density. The average price of
corn in US ports has reached 167 dollars per ton. The production of
35 billion gallons of ethanol requires 320 million tons of corn.
According to FAO, US corn production in 2005 reached 280.2 million
tons.

Even if the President is speaking about producing fuel out of
switchgrass or wood chips, any person could understand that these
phrases are far from realistic. Listen well: 35 billion gallons, 35
followed by nine zeros!

Beautiful examples of the productivity of men per hectare achieved by
the experienced and well organized US farmers will come next: corn
will be turned into ethanol; corn wastes will be turned into animal
fodder, with a 26 percent of proteins; cattle manure will be used as
raw material for the production of gas. Of course, all of this will
happen after a great number of investments, which could only be
afforded by the most powerful companies whose operations are based on
the consumption of electricity and fuel. Let this formula be applied
to the Third World countries, and the world will see how many hungry
people on this planet will cease to consume corn. What is worse, let
the poor countries receive some financing to produce ethanol from
corn or any other foodstuff and very soon not a single tree will be
left standing to protect humanity from climate change.

Other rich countries have planned to use not only corn but also
wheat, sunflower seeds, rapeseed and other foodstuffs to produce
fuel. For Europeans, for example, it would be a good business to
import the entire soybean production of the world to reduce the cost
of fuel for their automobiles and feed their animals with the wastes
of that legume, which has a high content of all kinds of essential
amino acids.

In Cuba, alcohol was produced as a sugar cane by-product, after three
extractions of sugarcane juice. Climate change is already affecting
our sugar production. Severe droughts alternate with record rainfall
values, which hardly allow our country to produce any sugar during a
period of 100 days with adequate yields during our very mild winter.
So, in Cuba, we are either producing less sugar per every ton of
sugarcane, or the number of tons of cane per hectare has been reduced
due to the long lasting droughts in the plantation and harvest
seasons.

I understand that Venezuela would not export alcohol; it will use it
to improve the environmental safety of its own fuel. Therefore,
despite the excellent technology designed by Brazil to produce
alcohol, its use in Cuba to produce alcohol from sugarcane juice is
nothing but a dream, the ravings of those who entertain such ideas.
In our country, the land which would otherwise be devoted solely to
the production of alcohol could be better used to produce foodstuffs
for the people and protect the environment.

All countries of the world without exception, whether rich or poor,
could save trillions of dollars in investments and fuel if they only
replace all incandescent bulbs with fluorescent bulbs, which is what
Cuba has done in all the residential areas of the country. This would
be a palliative that will enable us to cope with climate change
without killing the poor people in this planet with hunger.

As can be seen, I am not using adjectives to describe either the
system or those who have become the owners of this world. That task
will be brilliantly accomplished by the information experts, the many
honest socio-economic and political scientists in this world who
continuously delve into the present and the future of our species. A
computer and the increasing number of Internet networks will just be
enough to do that.

For the first time a truly globalized economy exists and a dominant
power in the economic, political, and military spheres that is in no
way similar to the ancient Rome ruled by emperors. Some people may
wonder why I am speaking about hunger and thirst. And I will answer:
this is not about the other side of a coin, but of the many different
sides of quite another object, maybe a six-sided dice or a polyhedron
which has many more sides.

This time I will quote an official news agency, founded in 1945,
which is in general very familiar with the economic and social
problems of the world: TELAM. It literally said:

"Within hardly 18 years, nearly 2 billion people will inhabit
countries and regions where water might seem a far away memory. Two
thirds of the world population could live in places where the lack of
water could bring about social and economic tensions that could lead
peoples to go to war over the precious "blue gold".

In the course of the last 100 years, water consumption has grown at a
pace which is more than twice the population growth rate.

"According to the World Water Council (WWC), the number of persons
affected by this serious situation will increase to 3.5 billion by
the year 2015.

On March 23, the United Nations Organization observed the World Water
Day, urging all member countries to cope with the international water
shortage as of that day, under the auspices of FAO, with the aim of
emphasizing the increasing importance of water shortage in the world
and the need for greater integration and cooperation to ensure a
sustainable and efficient management of water resources.

"Many regions in this planet suffer from severe water shortage, where
the annual rate of cubic meters per person is less than 500. Every
time there are more and more regions suffering from a chronic
shortage of this vital resource.

"An insufficient amount of the precious fluid necessary to produce
foodstuffs, the impaired development of industry, urban areas and
tourism, and the emergence of health problems are some of the
consequences that derive from water shortage." So much for the TELAM
wire service.

I have not mentioned other important facts, such as the ice that is
melting down in Greenland and the Antarctic, the damages caused to the
ozone layer and the ever higher titers of mercury found in many fish
species which are part of the regular people's diet.

Other topics could be addressed, but in these few lines I simply
intend to make some comments about the meeting held by President Bush
with the chief executives of US automakers.

March 28, 2007.

Fidel Castro


{Thanks to Walter Lippmann for bringing this to my attention -- Barry
Schier}
PL
2007-03-30 14:50:46 UTC
Permalink
and in Cuba 773,000 need WFP food aid while others face unger.
See: www.wfp.org
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 15:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
and in Cuba 773,000 need WFP food aid while others face unger.
See:www.wfp.org
Just to keep things in perspective, this aid, if distributed across
the entire population, would amount to no more than a few cents (USD)
per person per YEAR. This is NOT the massive aid you would us believe.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 15:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
and in Cuba 773,000 need WFP food aid while others face unger.
See:www.wfp.org
Just to keep things in perspective, this aid, if distributed across
the entire population, would amount to no more than a few cents
(snip)

The real perspective; tons of beans, rice, ... in a program that has run for
at least 5 years.

While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
That is the real "perspective".

Important energy-saving initiative
published: Saturday | May 27, 2006


These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html


( the data is in Jamaican dollar $2Bn Jamaican is about U$ 30 million.)


Note that while Castro hands out light bulbs to people that have them (older
ones) and food while the WFP programs to feed 773,000 people in Cuba were
underfunded.


Kinds of says what his priorities are, no?
On the WFP aid:
see:
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/104230_0603.pdf
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/project_docs/100320.pdf
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/100320_0411.pdf


Cuba
(a) Drought continues persist in the eastern provinces, including the
Province of Camagüey.
(b) Distribution under Emergency Operation (EMOP) 10423.0 is ongoing.
(c) Procurement of 233 tons of vegetable oil and 368 tons of beans through
the regional office has just been requested to cover urgent needs for one
month.
(d) EMOP 10423.0 is resourced at 20 percent of the total requirement. The
operation also received IRA 1.2 million. US$ 2,953,800 is urgently needed to
meet outstanding requirements.
http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=78&Key=683#192

"A three-month Emergency Operation for Cuba, Emergency Operation (EMOP)
10423.0, approved on 28 April 2005, will reach 773,000 people by providing
assistance
to vulnerable groups (pregnant and nursing women, children under five years
old
and elderly people) affected by the drought, with a complementary food
ration of
rice, beans and vegetable oil. The total cost of this operation will be
US$3,725,522.
Distribution of food to beneficiaries has not begun yet. A shipment of
1,141.80 tons of rice
from Montevideo is expected to arrive to Havana, with ETA August 29."
Emergency Report n. 34 19 August 2005
http://www.wfp.org/english/?n=34&k=649
http://iys.cidi.org/humanitarian/wfp/05b/ixl5.html

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 17:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
and in Cuba 773,000 need WFP food aid while others face unger.
See:www.wfp.org
Just to keep things in perspective, this aid, if distributed across
the entire population, would amount to no more than a few cents
(snip)
The real perspective; tons of beans, rice, ... in a program that has run for
at least 5 years.
We are STILL waiting for your proof that this aid amounts to more than
a few cents per person per YEAR.
Post by PL
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
[snip]

It seems not even your mafia pals have bought into this wacky little
conspiracy theory of yours, Mr. Lobbyist. That's gotta hurt!

Maybe it's because you still have no proof to support your outrageous
claims. Remember, we are STILL waiting for your proof that these light
bulbs, manufactured in China and also distributed free of cost to
Cuban households, actually cost the Cuban government anything at all.
It has been almost a year now. What seems to be the problem, Mr.
Lobbyist?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 18:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
and in Cuba 773,000 need WFP food aid while others face unger.
See:www.wfp.org
Just to keep things in perspective, this aid, if distributed across
the entire population, would amount to no more than a few cents
(snip)
The real perspective; tons of beans, rice, ... in a program that has run for
at least 5 years.
We are STILL waiting for your proof that this aid amounts to more than
a few cents per person per YEAR.
It amounts to the diffrence between hunger and being fed comrade Dan.
It amounts to the difference between diesease and decent life comrade Danj.
The WFP only steps in in case of need.
According to Granma over 3 million Cubans have received WFP aid over the
years.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
[snip]
It seems not even your mafia pals have bought into this wacky little
conspiracy theory
(snip)

No conspiracy theory comrade Dan.
A fact reported in the press and snipped by desperate Dan.

WHAT CANADIAN STALINIST DAN CHRISTENSEN SNIPPED:

While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
That is the real "perspective".

Important energy-saving initiative
published: Saturday | May 27, 2006


These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html


( the data is in Jamaican dollar $2Bn Jamaican is about U$ 30 million.)


Note that while Castro hands out light bulbs to people that have them (older
ones) and food while the WFP programs to feed 773,000 people in Cuba were
underfunded.


Kinds of says what his priorities are, no?
On the WFP aid:
see:
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/104230_0603.pdf
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/project_docs/100320.pdf
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/100320_0411.pdf

On the need of the Cuban people and the tons of food that had to be
provided:

Cuba
(a) Drought continues persist in the eastern provinces, including the
Province of Camagüey.
(b) Distribution under Emergency Operation (EMOP) 10423.0 is ongoing.
(c) Procurement of 233 tons of vegetable oil and 368 tons of beans through
the regional office has just been requested to cover urgent needs for one
month.
(d) EMOP 10423.0 is resourced at 20 percent of the total requirement. The
operation also received IRA 1.2 million. US$ 2,953,800 is urgently needed to
meet outstanding requirements.
http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=78&Key=683#192

"A three-month Emergency Operation for Cuba, Emergency Operation (EMOP)
10423.0, approved on 28 April 2005, will reach 773,000 people by providing
assistance
to vulnerable groups (pregnant and nursing women, children under five years
old
and elderly people) affected by the drought, with a complementary food
ration of
rice, beans and vegetable oil. The total cost of this operation will be
US$3,725,522.
Distribution of food to beneficiaries has not begun yet. A shipment of
1,141.80 tons of rice
from Montevideo is expected to arrive to Havana, with ETA August 29."
Emergency Report n. 34 19 August 2005
http://www.wfp.org/english/?n=34&k=649
http://iys.cidi.org/humanitarian/wfp/05b/ixl5.html

As usual Canadian Stalinist Dan Christensen resorts to lies, insults and
innuendo when he has no facts to post.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-30 18:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
and in Cuba 773,000 need WFP food aid while others face unger.
See:www.wfp.org
Just to keep things in perspective, this aid, if distributed across
the entire population, would amount to no more than a few cents
(snip)
The real perspective; tons of beans, rice, ... in a program that has run for
at least 5 years.
We are STILL waiting for your proof that this aid amounts to more than
a few cents per person per YEAR.
It amounts to the diffrence between hunger and being fed comrade Dan.
It amounts to the difference between diesease and decent life comrade Danj.
The WFP only steps in in case of need.
According to Granma over 3 million Cubans have received WFP aid over the
years.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
[snip]
It seems not even your mafia pals have bought into this wacky little
conspiracy theory
(snip)
No conspiracy theory comrade Dan.
A fact reported in the press and snipped by desperate Dan.
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
That is the real "perspective".
Important energy-saving initiative
published: Saturday | May 27, 2006
These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html
( the data is in Jamaican dollar $2Bn Jamaican is about U$ 30 million.)
Note that while Castro hands out light bulbs to people that have them (older
ones) and food while the WFP programs to feed 773,000 people in Cuba were
underfunded.
Kinds of says what his priorities are, no?
see:http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/104230_0603.pdfhttp://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/project_docs/100320.pdfhttp://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/100320_0411.pdf
On the need of the Cuban people and the tons of food that had to be
Cuba
(a) Drought continues persist in the eastern provinces, including the
Province of Camagüey.
(b) Distribution under Emergency Operation (EMOP) 10423.0 is ongoing.
(c) Procurement of 233 tons of vegetable oil and 368 tons of beans through
the regional office has just been requested to cover urgent needs for one
month.
(d) EMOP 10423.0 is resourced at 20 percent of the total requirement. The
operation also received IRA 1.2 million. US$ 2,953,800 is urgently needed to
meet outstanding requirements.http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=78&Key=683#192
"A three-month Emergency Operation for Cuba, Emergency Operation (EMOP)
10423.0, approved on 28 April 2005, will reach 773,000 people by providing
assistance
to vulnerable groups (pregnant and nursing women, children under five years
old
and elderly people) affected by the drought, with a complementary food
ration of
rice, beans and vegetable oil. The total cost of this operation will be
US$3,725,522.
Distribution of food to beneficiaries has not begun yet. A shipment of
1,141.80 tons of rice
from Montevideo is expected to arrive to Havana, with ETA August 29."
Emergency Report n. 34 19 August 2005http://www.wfp.org/english/?n=34&k=649http://iys.cidi.org/humanitarian/wfp/05b/ixl5.html
As usual Canadian Stalinist Dan Christensen resorts to lies, insults and
innuendo when he has no facts to post.
Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%...
"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%...
Unquote.
You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........
Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.
As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.
Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?...
Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.
Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?...
'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823
YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."
In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.
" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report
You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.
"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."
Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".
See:http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Dan

Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving
to death
and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
You are waisting your time.

T.Schmidt
PL
2007-03-30 19:58:01 UTC
Permalink
"ljsprojects" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
(snip)
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving to
death and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
Only an idiot can deny that before Castro there was no hunger in Cuba as
Castro himself has admitted that.

"Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis and no hunger in
Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise and Fall of
Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Note on the author Maurice Halperin:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/references/halperin.htm

Today
"For many Cubans, the problems with the system include inadequate public
transportation, crumbling housing, food shortages and soaring prices."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,...tory?coll=sfla-news-cuba
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28594

Like Mugabe Castro has destroyed the Cuban food production.
Just one example: rice, the staple food of Cubans

The story of rice in Cuba:

Castro's destruction of nutrition.
Rice is the staple of Cuban food. Cubans where no bread eaters. they ate
rice.
"After WW2 imported rice was difficult to obtain and costly, so Cuban
farmers had an incentive to grow rice. In 1949 Cuba produced 10 percent
of domestic consumption. In 1960, the year after Castro came to power, the
Cuban rice harvest was 400,000 metric toms, making Cuba for the
first time self-sufficient in rice. During the decade of the fifties, Cuban
producers had successfully adopted the latest methods of rice farming
employed in Louisiana and Texas. From the point of technological expertise,
rice production outstripped that of any other branch of Cuban agriculture;
and in terms of money value, rice became one of Cuba's major crops.
By 1962, with Cuban agriculture socialized, the rice yield was reduced by
50%. The same year, as has already been noted, the rationing of foodstuffs
was introduced, with the rice ration set at 6 pounds per person per month.
... That lowered per capita consumption by two thirds... More over, for
low-income Cubans, for whom rice formed amore substantial part of their
diet, the reduction was even greater."

M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.49-50.


A well functioning free market ensured that from a shortage in 1949 break
even was achieved by 1960. Castro ruined the industry by 1962. In
two years 50% of the annual need in rice were no longer met.

In 1966 the rice ration was again reduced by half to 3 ponds per person per
month. that is down from 18 to 3 ponds since the start of the
dictatorship.
The reason was: the deal that Castro himself had made with China on the
supply of rice fell through when Castro didn't deliver the promised
support in their "polemic" with the SU.
(for details on the rice Crisis and the Cuba - China quarrel see: M.
Halperin, Taming of Fidel Castro, Berkeley: University of California Press,
1981, p. 195-207.)


"Thus in 1965, Cuban rice production had dwindled to 50,000 tons..."
M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.50..


Why did Castro need to reduce rice productions even further: to grow more
sugar to reach his (foolish) goal of 10 million tons of sugar in 1970.
He never made it, but destroyed the production of a staple food while at it.
Gross incompetence. Criminal negligence.

At the end of 1989 the rice ration was 5 pounds. Down from an average
consumption of 18 pounds before the revolution.
Last I saw that is still the same outside Havana with a 20% larger ration of
6 pounds in Havana.
You are waisting your time.
Nope.
you are wasting your timr old racist.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-06 03:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
(snip)
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving to
death and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
Only an idiot can deny that before Castro there was no hunger in Cuba as
Castro himself has admitted that.
Forget about your "anarchist archives," and your nostalgia for the
"good old days" under Batista.
"The income from sugar was augmented by vigorous tourism based on
hotels, casinos, and brothels; Havana became especially attractive
during the years of U.S. Prohibition (1919-33). Yet the prosperity of
the 1920s, '40s, and '50s enriched only a few Cubans. For the
majority, poverty (especially in the countryside) and lack of public
services were appalling."
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=127845&tocid=54423
"Foreign observers agree on the progress made in lowering the
incidence of malnutrition in Cuba. [Citing studies dated in the early
1980's...] It has been stated that "given the equity imposed by wage
policy and the rationing of food, there is no reason to doubt the
affirmation of the government that malnutrition in Cuba has fallen
from a pre-revolutionary level of 40% to a current level of less than
5%."
http://www.cidh.oas.org/countryrep/Cuba83eng/chap.12.htm

So much for your "good old days, eh, Mr. Lobbyist?

"The generalized food crisis [of the early-to-mid 1990's] in Cuba is
over. Statistical data, journalist accounts, and extensive field
visits confirm that the period of a systemic farming crisis,
widespread food shortages and extensive nutritional deficiencies has
passed. Farmers are producing more food, the state is importing more
food, and the diet of the population has improved....

"Food imports dropped by one third from 1989 to 1994, the same period
in which caloric intake dropped by 38%. Instead of being forced to pay
this 30% penalty imposed by [US] sanctions, if Cuba had been able to
import 30% more food, the food deficit would have been erased....

"Under the circumstances facing Cuba--the U.S. embargo, loss of
trading partners, little international aid, and economic collapse--the
agricultural recovery is nothing short of extraordinary."

"Going against the grain," Oxfam America, 2001
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/art1164.html


"Cubans [today] have as much food as they did before the Soviet
Union collapsed.... [T]heir caloric intake has returned to normal -
they've gotten that meal back."
Bill McKibben, Harpers Magazien, 2004 (See the thread, "The Cuba
Diet" at
SCC.)

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-06 14:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
(snip)
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving to
death and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
Only an idiot can deny that before Castro there was no hunger in Cuba as
Castro himself has admitted that.
Forget about your "anarchist archives,"
Nope.
the quote comes from the book af a man that was persecuted by McCarthy and
that was a friend of Che (who invited him to Cuba).
That is why you had to snip the text I guess.
"Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis and no hunger in
Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise and Fall of
Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Note on the author Maurice Halperin:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/references/halperin.htm

The fact that the well known US anarchist Sam Dolgoff also quotes him in his
work just shows the respect the source has in "non-loony" left circles.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter7.html
Post by Dan Christensen
and your nostalgia for the "good old days" under Batista.
Nope.
I support the aim of the Anti- Bastista revolution: the restoration of the
1940 constitution.
Even Che and Castro said the revoilution wasn't communist.
In fact: the communists supported Batista until late 1958.

Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
Castro not on the side of the revolution:

In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
from the Communists:

"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.

See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm

A version of the facts confirmed in this (Marxist) source:


In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace.

(also see the video: Cuba Memoria Sindical) In line with the Communist
Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of the
Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the Party
joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
Party:

June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .

Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista

In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.

In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
Throughout the Batista period the communists pursued two parallel policies:
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.

See: (with internal links added)
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

Time line: (from a website on dissident communists in Cuba)

* May 1940 The official communists support Batista in the
Presidential elections.
* July 1942 Batista declares war on the Axis powers and appeals to
political parties in Cuba to form a Government of National Unity. The
official communists join Batista's cabinet.

See:
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/fi/cuba/tennent/PhD/appendC.html





Some facts:

* The PSP (Partido Socialista Popular - Cuban Communist party at
the time) supported Batista until July 20th 1958 (when the Pacto de Caracas,
the agreement between July 26 movement and Partido Socialista Popular was
signed)
See: Jorge Garcia Montes and Antonio Alonso Avila. Historia del
Partido
Comunista de Cuba. Ediciones Universal, Miami 1970 e.g. pp. 440, 453,
492,
501, 504, 536.
* The notorious BRAC (Buro de Repression de Actividades Comunistas)
(see "Repuesta" pp. 57-64) was not effective against overt and covert
communists but apparently used communist contacts to provide high level X-4
information (e.g. "Repuesta" p. 132) on disaffected officials of the Cuban
army and non-Castro resistance that was almost without exception co-opted.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista
* The veteran Cuba-watcher Ruby Phillips of the New York Times
speculated, from sources unnamed, that one of the reasons why BRAC made few
arrests of Communists in early 1958 was that the Communists had struck a
deal with Batista: If they refrained from supporting Castro, Batista would
stop harassing them.
When CIA headquarters official Lyman B. Kirkpatrick, Jr., visited
Batista in 1957 on a mission to strengthen BRAC, the Cuban president, to
Kirkpatrick's shock, brought in a photographer to snap pictures that showed
up in the next day's Havana newspapers. "Thus I found myself being
used to bolster a shaky and increasingly unpopular regime," Kirkpatrick
lamented. As he learned the next year, BRAC was almost entirely targeting
M-26-7 and using violence in interrogations, "despite our constant
protests."(31)

See: Contesting Castro, by Thomas G. Paterson
* Missing from the insurrection against the dictator were the
Communists and their followers (the lower working classes and unions).
Samuel Farber writes that "The old Communist Party had little that could
attract the new generations of young rebels, while the older liberal
anti-Batista elements would not even consider cooperation [with the
Communists]...this Communist weakness had some significant consequences, not
the least being that it contributed to the inability of the working class to
take a leadership role in the revolutions against Batista... they probably
figured that Batista, like most other dictators in Latin America, would
eventually be succeeded by some more liberal regime. If such a compromise
solution was going to be found, the Party wanted to ensure that it would be
in the strongest possible bargaining position."
The Communists docility and dangerous co-existence with Batista
included several painful episodes in the struggle against the tyrant, such
as the Party's boycott of anti-Batista demonstrations and their siding with
Batista's police against a group of organized demonstrators as early
as November 19, 1955. In reaction to the Hubert Matthews interview of
Castro, the Communist Party publicly rejected Castro by stating their
"radical
disagreement with the tactics and plans of Fidel Castro." Finally
there was the infamous event known as "The Humboldt Seven" crime, which was
to poison relations between Castro and the Communists well into the 1960's
and culminated with executions and arrests of several Party members in the
early 1960's.
On March 13, 1957, the militant student group known as Directorio
Revolucionario attacked the presidential palace and nearly killed Batista
(who was saved by a dud hand grenade and incredible luck). The immediate
reprisals by the Havana police and other armed factions was ferocious,
and Lieutenant Colonel Esteban Ventura Novo achieved fame by the bloody
terror in which he engulfed the capital in the manhunt for student leaders.
Among the many detained during the days of terror were several Communist
students, one of which betrayed the location of the rebel safe house. The
apartment was located at number seven Humboldt Street, hence the name of the
episode.
Surrounded by Havana policemen, four rebel students surrendered, and
Ventura immediately killed them. The traitor, a Communist student named
Marcos Rodriguez, for reasons unknown to this day, was subsequently
protected by powerful Party leaders Joaquin Ordoqui and Edith Garcia
Buchaca. The Rodriguez trial in 1964 led to his execution and the subsequent
arrests of Ordoqui and Buchaca. I will discuss the event in more detail
later in this article.
Communist students and leaders had been against the attack on the
presidential palace all along, and remained staunchly against Castro's
insurgency throughout its first year. Juan Marinello, as guerrillas fought
in the mountains and students died on the streets of Havana, wrote to
Herbert Matthews in 1957 that "there's no need for a popular insurrection,"
and that 26 of July Movement "is following mistaken tactics... for that
reason we do not approve of its tactics." Their reasoning was clear: Moscow
did not yet approve of Castro and they were playing for evolution (like the
1930's and 1940's) rather than a violent course.
An even more serious confrontation between the Communist Party and
Castro was soon to take place. On April 9, 1957, and using his new rebel
radio station, Castro called for a general strike against Batista in an
effort to
bring down the dictator. For various reasons, the strike failed, and
at least 100 Cubans were killed that day and several hundred arrested. Soon
Castro charged that the Communists had "sabotaged the strike to promote the
downfall of the [26 of July] Movement." Later, Castro was to say in an
interview to Look magazine that "the Cuban Communists...have never opposed
Batista, for whom they have seemed to feel a closer friendship."
See: http://members.tripod.com/~Campello/castro.html
* The Communists would soon be caught between Batista and the
anti-Batista forces. Meanwhile, the dictator closed down all opposition
newspapers (Hoy, however, was allowed to remain open), terrorized editors
and students, broke relations with the Soviet Union, and outlawed the
Communist Party (but not its daily newspaper). The Communists entered a
period of dangerous coexistence with the dictator; Fidel Castro entered a
period of war and Cuba was with him.
See: http://members.tripod.com/~Campello/castro.html


From: Is Cuba socialist? a debate on a Socialist website in the UK

There are four main arguments that Cuba is some kind of socialism: all of
them are without foundation. The first argument is that Cuba is socialist
because the revolution was led by people who now call themselves Communists.
Yet you only have to look at the July 26th movement before 1959 to see that
is wrong. Their programme was for the restoration of the 1940 Constitution,
in other words for a bourgeois-democratic republic. They said in their
manifesto that nationalisation was a "cumbersome instrument" and that Cuba
would be "a loyal ally" of their Northern neighbour. Castro himself said in
an interview in 1970 that, "In 1959 there was no class consciousness, only
class instinct, which is not the same thing", and referred to the revolution
in the early months of 1959 as neither capitalist nor socialist but "olive
green". The Castroites labelled the Communist Party "totalitarian". They
were certainly no mass party. There were 81 fighters on the Granma; only 300
at the battle of Santa Clara; and around 1500 overall. In terms of
composition, the July 26th movement was a mixture of middle class leaders
like Castro, some workers and youth, but mostly class elements. In no sense,
by its programme, size or composition was it a mass socialist party.

Some commentators have said that the socialist element was provided by the
involvement of the Communist Party, which by the fifties was called the
Popular Socialist Party, the PSP. Although they had been in the previous
period the largest and most influential Communist Party in Latin America,
they were also the most cravenly opportunist, and the most Stalinist,
following every twist and turn in Russian foreign policy and adapting to
their Cuban milieu. They were sectarian in opposing the general strike in
1933 which brought down the dictator Machado. Later their popular front
strategy led them to gain two ministers under Batista after forming an
alliance with him after 1938. They spoke of having a "positive attitude
towards the progressive endeavours" of Batista in his first period in power.
Even into the fifties, though the CP had been repressed by their former
ally, they referred to the July 26th movement as "putschists and sterile".
Although they came to some understanding with Castro from 1957 and sent
cadres to fight with the guerrillas, they were still formally calling for a
bourgeois government to replace Batista into the middle of 1958, only months
before Castro took power. This was hardly the programme or actions of a
revolutionary socialist party that sought to lead the working class to
power.

Finally, look at the manner of the seizure of power. After a two year
guerrilla campaign, in the major battle of the war at Santa Clara in the
last days of 1958, only 6 guerrillas and 300 soldiers died. Batista himself
fled. There was not even a battle for the capital, Havana. There were no
Soviets, few factory committees or occupations. The last general strike in
April 1958 was a failure, and there were no organs of dual power. The
workers were largely passive. The general strike in the first week of
January 1959 was a public holiday. Batista's rule had already collapsed. No
one in 1959, not even Castro or Guevara, said the revolution was socialist,
and the revolution was not led by conscious socialists, whatever Fidel's
later protestations. The 26th July movement stood for mild reforms, which
could not be achieved because of Batista's dictatorship and the domination
of American imperialism, hence the necessity of guerrilla war. The new
government in 1959 was a petty bourgeois government, but one which ruled a
country with a peculiar class structure and American hegemony. It was not
socialist. To argue it was socialist in hindsight is to reach the absurd
conclusion that a socialist revolution can be made without the active agency
of the working class or without a conscious Marxist party.

See: http://archive.workersliberty.org/wlmags/wl54/cuba.htm


From the International Socialist Review:

Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,

What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)


The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
cities an obstacle in the struggle:

It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry. The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11


In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
character:

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12

10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.

11 Quoted in T. Cliff, Deflected Permanent Revolution (London:
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.

12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.

See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml
http://www.cubaverdad.net/start_frames.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2wbswb
Post by Dan Christensen
"The income from sugar was augmented by vigorous tourism based on
hotels, casinos, and brothels; (snip)
What communists of the time said:

A COMPARATIVE LOOK AT SOCIO-ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
IN PRE-CASTRO AND PRESENT DAY CUBA
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/cuba/wwwh0013.htm

"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
extremely significant observation that:
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)

Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
every economist, as well as amateurs like Castro, has been saying:
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .

.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)

Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
of the leading communists, who admitted that:
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)

see:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter7.html

Castro himself admitted that there was no hunger in Cuba:

Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

From this other Socialist website the developed status of Cuba before Castro
(and the immediate effects of his take-over) are clear:

"Firstly Cuba was already relatively developed before 1959, probably third
in Latin America. Secondly, Cuba compares well but not is not markedly
better than examples of capitalist countries on a similar level, like Taiwan
and Costa Rica. Thirdly, since the withdrawal of the Russian subsidy there
has been a terrible decline in living standards.

Cuba's annual growth figure of 4% over the first thirty years, even if it is
credible, which I doubt, does not reveal the whole picture. Cuba fell from
third place in Latin America to fifteenth for GDP per capita between 1952
and 1981, and the growth figures that were achieved did not arise from
increases in productivity. The economy shrank from the mid-1980's and
plummeted 35% between 1989-93, back to 1970's levels. GDP per head is now
lower than Jamaica. From 1963 Cuba became a sugar monoculture within the
Soviet empire. But the real crisis in Cuban agriculture is shown by the fact
that half the food for Havana (three million people) is currently produced
by the army, which owns just 4% of the land."

See: http://archive.workersliberty.org/wlmags/wl54/cuba.htm

What comrade Dan snipped:

Today: 773,000 people need WFP food aid (see: www.wfp.org)

"For many Cubans, the problems with the system include inadequate public
transportation, crumbling housing, food shortages and soaring prices."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,...tory?coll=sfla-news-cuba
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28594

Like Mugabe Castro has destroyed the Cuban food production.
Just one example: rice, the staple food of Cubans

The story of rice in Cuba:

Castro's destruction of nutrition.
Rice is the staple of Cuban food. Cubans where no bread eaters. they ate
rice.
"After WW2 imported rice was difficult to obtain and costly, so Cuban
farmers had an incentive to grow rice. In 1949 Cuba produced 10 percent
of domestic consumption. In 1960, the year after Castro came to power, the
Cuban rice harvest was 400,000 metric toms, making Cuba for the
first time self-sufficient in rice. During the decade of the fifties, Cuban
producers had successfully adopted the latest methods of rice farming
employed in Louisiana and Texas. From the point of technological expertise,
rice production outstripped that of any other branch of Cuban agriculture;
and in terms of money value, rice became one of Cuba's major crops.
By 1962, with Cuban agriculture socialized, the rice yield was reduced by
50%. The same year, as has already been noted, the rationing of foodstuffs
was introduced, with the rice ration set at 6 pounds per person per month.
... That lowered per capita consumption by two thirds... More over, for
low-income Cubans, for whom rice formed amore substantial part of their
diet, the reduction was even greater."

M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.49-50.


A well functioning free market ensured that from a shortage in 1949 break
even was achieved by 1960. Castro ruined the industry by 1962. In
two years 50% of the annual need in rice were no longer met.

In 1966 the rice ration was again reduced by half to 3 ponds per person per
month. that is down from 18 to 3 ponds since the start of the
dictatorship.
The reason was: the deal that Castro himself had made with China on the
supply of rice fell through when Castro didn't deliver the promised
support in their "polemic" with the SU.
(for details on the rice Crisis and the Cuba - China quarrel see: M.
Halperin, Taming of Fidel Castro, Berkeley: University of California Press,
1981, p. 195-207.)


"Thus in 1965, Cuban rice production had dwindled to 50,000 tons..."
M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.50..


Why did Castro need to reduce rice productions even further: to grow more
sugar to reach his (foolish) goal of 10 million tons of sugar in 1970.
He never made it, but destroyed the production of a staple food while at it.
Gross incompetence. Criminal negligence.

At the end of 1989 the rice ration was 5 pounds. Down from an average
consumption of 18 pounds before the revolution.
Last I saw that is still the same outside Havana with a 20% larger ration of
6 pounds in Havana.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-06 15:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
(snip)
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving to
death and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
Only an idiot can deny that before Castro there was no hunger in Cuba as
Castro himself has admitted that.
Forget about your "anarchist archives,"
Nope.
the quote comes from the book af a man that was persecuted by McCarthy and
that was a friend of Che (who invited him to Cuba).
[snip]

More mainstream sources like Britannica and Oxfam America, as well as
the US-dominated OAS have decisively refuted this nostalgia of yours
for the "good old days" under your beloved, US-backed Batista regime.
Your questionable and obscure sources here notwithstanding, today, the
overwhelming consensus of expert opinion is that the average Cuban is
much better off today in terms of health and social conditions. (See
my previous posting here. Also see "Achievements of the Revolution" at
my website.)

Despite the best efforts all you embargo-Nazis, Cuba continues to lead
the region in both health care and education. As measured by the
infant mortality rate, the single most reliable indicator of over all
public health, Cubans surpassed their tormentors to the North years
ago. Cuba could very well be a world leader in these areas were it not
for genocidal US trade sanctions, about which even the UN Human Rights
Commission has been forced to concede, "It is also impossible to
ignore the disastrous and lasting economic and social effects of the
embargo imposed on the Cuban population over 40 years ago." (SCC
archives) Makes you proud, don't it, Mr. Lobbyist?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-07 03:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Note how Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen snipped ALL references to the
close ties between Batista and the communists in Cuba;
For the whole story see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/revolution.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
(snip)
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving to
death and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
Only an idiot can deny that before Castro there was no hunger in Cuba as
Castro himself has admitted that.
Forget about your "anarchist archives,"
Nope.
the quote comes from the book af a man that was persecuted by McCarthy and
that was a friend of Che (who invited him to Cuba).
[snip]
More mainstream sources
(snip)

The guy was in Cuba comrade Dan.
Castrp and other top communist officials have said the same thing: NO
HUNGER.

What comrade Dan snipped.

A COMPARATIVE LOOK AT SOCIO-ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
IN PRE-CASTRO AND PRESENT DAY CUBA
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/cuba/wwwh0013.htm

"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
extremely significant observation that:
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)

Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
every economist, as well as amateurs like Castro, has been saying:
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .

.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)

Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
of the leading communists, who admitted that:
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)

see:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter7.html

Castro himself admitted that there was no hunger in Cuba:

Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

From this other Socialist website the developed status of Cuba before Castro
(and the immediate effects of his take-over) are clear:

"Firstly Cuba was already relatively developed before 1959, probably third
in Latin America. Secondly, Cuba compares well but not is not markedly
better than examples of capitalist countries on a similar level, like Taiwan
and Costa Rica. Thirdly, since the withdrawal of the Russian subsidy there
has been a terrible decline in living standards.

Cuba's annual growth figure of 4% over the first thirty years, even if it is
credible, which I doubt, does not reveal the whole picture. Cuba fell from
third place in Latin America to fifteenth for GDP per capita between 1952
and 1981, and the growth figures that were achieved did not arise from
increases in productivity. The economy shrank from the mid-1980's and
plummeted 35% between 1989-93, back to 1970's levels. GDP per head is now
lower than Jamaica. From 1963 Cuba became a sugar monoculture within the
Soviet empire. But the real crisis in Cuban agriculture is shown by the fact
that half the food for Havana (three million people) is currently produced
by the army, which owns just 4% of the land."

See: http://archive.workersliberty.org/wlmags/wl54/cuba.htm


Today: 773,000 people need WFP food aid (see: www.wfp.org)

"For many Cubans, the problems with the system include inadequate public
transportation, crumbling housing, food shortages and soaring prices."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,...tory?coll=sfla-news-cuba
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28594

Like Mugabe Castro has destroyed the Cuban food production.
Just one example: rice, the staple food of Cubans

The story of rice in Cuba:

Castro's destruction of nutrition.
Rice is the staple of Cuban food. Cubans where no bread eaters. they ate
rice.
"After WW2 imported rice was difficult to obtain and costly, so Cuban
farmers had an incentive to grow rice. In 1949 Cuba produced 10 percent
of domestic consumption. In 1960, the year after Castro came to power, the
Cuban rice harvest was 400,000 metric toms, making Cuba for the
first time self-sufficient in rice. During the decade of the fifties, Cuban
producers had successfully adopted the latest methods of rice farming
employed in Louisiana and Texas. From the point of technological expertise,
rice production outstripped that of any other branch of Cuban agriculture;
and in terms of money value, rice became one of Cuba's major crops.
By 1962, with Cuban agriculture socialized, the rice yield was reduced by
50%. The same year, as has already been noted, the rationing of foodstuffs
was introduced, with the rice ration set at 6 pounds per person per month.
... That lowered per capita consumption by two thirds... More over, for
low-income Cubans, for whom rice formed amore substantial part of their
diet, the reduction was even greater."

M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.49-50.


A well functioning free market ensured that from a shortage in 1949 break
even was achieved by 1960. Castro ruined the industry by 1962. In
two years 50% of the annual need in rice were no longer met.

In 1966 the rice ration was again reduced by half to 3 ponds per person per
month. that is down from 18 to 3 ponds since the start of the
dictatorship.
The reason was: the deal that Castro himself had made with China on the
supply of rice fell through when Castro didn't deliver the promised
support in their "polemic" with the SU.
(for details on the rice Crisis and the Cuba - China quarrel see: M.
Halperin, Taming of Fidel Castro, Berkeley: University of California Press,
1981, p. 195-207.)


"Thus in 1965, Cuban rice production had dwindled to 50,000 tons..."
M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.50..


Why did Castro need to reduce rice productions even further: to grow more
sugar to reach his (foolish) goal of 10 million tons of sugar in 1970.
He never made it, but destroyed the production of a staple food while at it.
Gross incompetence. Criminal negligence.

At the end of 1989 the rice ration was 5 pounds. Down from an average
consumption of 18 pounds before the revolution.
Last I saw that is still the same outside Havana with a 20% larger ration of
6 pounds in Havana.
Post by Dan Christensen
Despite the best efforts all you embargo-Nazis,
(snip)
Dan Christensen: you are the only one with "Nazi" attitudes.

You support a regime that:
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the past:
the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar: (posted
every time Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen post his lie about me)

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-09 03:43:39 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 6, 11:32 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Forget about your "anarchist archives,"
Nope.
the quote comes from the book af a man that was persecuted by McCarthy and
that was a friend of Che (who invited him to Cuba).
[snip]
More mainstream sources
(snip)
The guy was in Cuba comrade Dan.
Castrp and other top communist officials have said the same thing: NO
HUNGER.
[snip]

Once again, it seems you are reduced to mindlessly repeating your
failed arguments here, desperately hoping that no one has noticed. If
you have nothing no and relevant to add, do not expect a reply from me
on this matter.

Again, we are left with the fact that, your obscure and questionable
sources notwithstanding, today, the overwhelming consensus of expert
opinion is that the average Cuban is much better off today in terms of
health and social conditions than under your beloved, US-backed
Batista regime (not Soviet-backed as you would actually have us
believe!).

And that despite the best efforts all you embargo-Nazis, Cuba
continues to lead the region in both health care and education. As
measured by the infant mortality rate, the single most reliable
indicator of over all public health, Cubans surpassed their tormentors
to the North years ago. Cuba could very well be a world leader in
these areas were it not for genocidal US trade sanctions, about which
even the UN Human Rights Commission has been forced to concede, "It is
also impossible to ignore the disastrous and lasting economic and
social effects of the embargo imposed on the Cuban population over 40
years ago." (SCC archives) Makes you proud, don't it, Mr. Lobbyist?


Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-09 10:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
By which comrade Dan means that he snips what he can't refute

Note how Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen snipped ALL references to the
close ties between Batista and the communists in Cuba;
For the whole story see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/revolution.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Dan Christensen
Forget about your "anarchist archives,"
Nope.
the quote comes from the book af a man that was persecuted by McCarthy and
that was a friend of Che (who invited him to Cuba).
[snip]
More mainstream sources
(snip)
The guy was in Cuba comrade Dan.
Castrp and other top communist officials have said the same thing: NO
HUNGER.
[snip]
Once again, it seems you are reduced to mindlessly repeating your
failed arguments
(snip)

Nope.
you are reduced to snipping everything, as usual.

The guy was in Cuba comrade Dan.
Castrp and other top communist officials have said the same thing: NO
HUNGER.

What comrade Dan snipped.

A COMPARATIVE LOOK AT SOCIO-ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
IN PRE-CASTRO AND PRESENT DAY CUBA
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/cuba/wwwh0013.htm

"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
extremely significant observation that:
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)

Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
every economist, as well as amateurs like Castro, has been saying:
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .

.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)

Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
of the leading communists, who admitted that:
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)

see:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter7.html

Castro himself admitted that there was no hunger in Cuba:

Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

From this other Socialist website the developed status of Cuba before Castro
(and the immediate effects of his take-over) are clear:

"Firstly Cuba was already relatively developed before 1959, probably third
in Latin America. Secondly, Cuba compares well but not is not markedly
better than examples of capitalist countries on a similar level, like Taiwan
and Costa Rica. Thirdly, since the withdrawal of the Russian subsidy there
has been a terrible decline in living standards.

Cuba's annual growth figure of 4% over the first thirty years, even if it is
credible, which I doubt, does not reveal the whole picture. Cuba fell from
third place in Latin America to fifteenth for GDP per capita between 1952
and 1981, and the growth figures that were achieved did not arise from
increases in productivity. The economy shrank from the mid-1980's and
plummeted 35% between 1989-93, back to 1970's levels. GDP per head is now
lower than Jamaica. From 1963 Cuba became a sugar monoculture within the
Soviet empire. But the real crisis in Cuban agriculture is shown by the fact
that half the food for Havana (three million people) is currently produced
by the army, which owns just 4% of the land."

See: http://archive.workersliberty.org/wlmags/wl54/cuba.htm


Today: 773,000 people need WFP food aid (see: www.wfp.org)

"For many Cubans, the problems with the system include inadequate public
transportation, crumbling housing, food shortages and soaring prices."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,...tory?coll=sfla-news-cuba
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28594

Like Mugabe Castro has destroyed the Cuban food production.
Just one example: rice, the staple food of Cubans

The story of rice in Cuba:

Castro's destruction of nutrition.
Rice is the staple of Cuban food. Cubans where no bread eaters. they ate
rice.
"After WW2 imported rice was difficult to obtain and costly, so Cuban
farmers had an incentive to grow rice. In 1949 Cuba produced 10 percent
of domestic consumption. In 1960, the year after Castro came to power, the
Cuban rice harvest was 400,000 metric toms, making Cuba for the
first time self-sufficient in rice. During the decade of the fifties, Cuban
producers had successfully adopted the latest methods of rice farming
employed in Louisiana and Texas. From the point of technological expertise,
rice production outstripped that of any other branch of Cuban agriculture;
and in terms of money value, rice became one of Cuba's major crops.
By 1962, with Cuban agriculture socialized, the rice yield was reduced by
50%. The same year, as has already been noted, the rationing of foodstuffs
was introduced, with the rice ration set at 6 pounds per person per month.
... That lowered per capita consumption by two thirds... More over, for
low-income Cubans, for whom rice formed amore substantial part of their
diet, the reduction was even greater."

M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.49-50.


A well functioning free market ensured that from a shortage in 1949 break
even was achieved by 1960. Castro ruined the industry by 1962. In
two years 50% of the annual need in rice were no longer met.

In 1966 the rice ration was again reduced by half to 3 ponds per person per
month. that is down from 18 to 3 ponds since the start of the
dictatorship.
The reason was: the deal that Castro himself had made with China on the
supply of rice fell through when Castro didn't deliver the promised
support in their "polemic" with the SU.
(for details on the rice Crisis and the Cuba - China quarrel see: M.
Halperin, Taming of Fidel Castro, Berkeley: University of California Press,
1981, p. 195-207.)


"Thus in 1965, Cuban rice production had dwindled to 50,000 tons..."
M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,
p.50..


Why did Castro need to reduce rice productions even further: to grow more
sugar to reach his (foolish) goal of 10 million tons of sugar in 1970.
He never made it, but destroyed the production of a staple food while at it.
Gross incompetence. Criminal negligence.

At the end of 1989 the rice ration was 5 pounds. Down from an average
consumption of 18 pounds before the revolution.
Last I saw that is still the same outside Havana with a 20% larger ration of
6 pounds in Havana.
Post by Dan Christensen
Despite the best efforts all you embargo-Nazis,
(snip)
Dan Christensen: you are the only one with "Nazi" attitudes.

You support a regime that:
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the past:
the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar: (posted
every time Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen post his lie about me)

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL

Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 20:18:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 30, 2:27 pm, "ljsprojects" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by ljsprojects
Dan
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving
to death
and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
You are waisting your time.
Thanks for your concern, but where else would you get to kick the butt
of an ultra-right-wing lobbyist like this on a daily basis? For only a
few minutes a day, it's fun and socially productive at the same time.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 20:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snip]
Post by ljsprojects
Dan
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving
to death
and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
You are waisting your time.
Thanks for your concern, but where else would you get to kick the butt
of an ultra-right-wing lobbyist l
(snip)

Not "ultra -right wing": Christian democrat. You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he dnies this fact)
No lobbyist, hat is just your frequently exposed lie.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 20:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
[snip]
Post by ljsprojects
Dan
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving
to death
and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
You are waisting your time.
Thanks for your concern, but where else would you get to kick the butt
of an ultra-right-wing lobbyist l
(snip)
Not "ultra -right wing": Christian democrat.
Yeah, right! No one like you, who supports murder, torture and
genocide, can call themselves a "democrat" of any kind.
Post by PL
You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he dnies this fact)
You want your fascist butt kicked on this one again? Be my guest, Mr.
Lobbyist.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 20:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
[snip]
Post by ljsprojects
Dan
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving
to death
and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
You are waisting your time.
Thanks for your concern, but where else would you get to kick the butt
of an ultra-right-wing lobbyist l
(snip)
Not "ultra -right wing": Christian democrat.
Yeah, right! No one like you, who supports murder, torture and
genocide,
(snip)

Nope.
I don't.
You do.
You support a regime that:
- does not allow freedom of speech
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the
past:the UMAP)
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- violates human rights
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated
system of social control
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm

You are the true "fascist"
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

The only supporter of a genocide are you Stalinist Dan.
Castro regime has is and has been for years on "Genocide Watch"'s list:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm

More see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he denies this fact)
You want your fascist butt kicked on this one again?
You are the red "fascist" comrade Dan Christensen.
I see you don't deny the fact that you praised "workers democracy" under
Stalin.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 21:35:27 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 30, 4:51 pm, PL <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he denies this fact)
You want your fascist butt kicked on this one again?
You are the red "fascist" comrade Dan Christensen.
I see you don't deny the fact that you praised "workers democracy" under
Stalin.
[snip]

Getting cold feet, Mr. Lobbyist? How about that quote?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 22:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he denies this fact)
You want your fascist butt kicked on this one again?
You are the red "fascist" comrade Dan Christensen.
I see you don't deny the fact that you praised "workers democracy" under
Stalin.
[snip]
Getting cold feet, Mr. Lobbyist? How about that quote?
Nope.
Here it is.
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist countries.
http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-31 02:50:42 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 30, 6:04 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he denies this fact)
You want your fascist butt kicked on this one again?
You are the red "fascist" comrade Dan Christensen.
I see you don't deny the fact that you praised "workers democracy" under
Stalin.
[snip]
Getting cold feet, Mr. Lobbyist? How about that quote?
Nope.
Here it is.
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
I wrote:

"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."

In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)

Some "Stalinist!" But thanks again for exposing your lies about me,
Mr. Lobbyist. You really are a pathetic loser!

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-31 08:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
You just hate the
"democrat" part, Candian Stalinist (quotes can be provided of his
admiration of "worker's democracy" under Stalin if he denies this fact)
You want your fascist butt kicked on this one again?
You are the red "fascist" comrade Dan Christensen.
I see you don't deny the fact that you praised "workers democracy" under
Stalin.
[snip]
Getting cold feet, Mr. Lobbyist? How about that quote?
Nope.
Here it is.
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the
impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist
countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."
In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)
Some "Stalinist!"
(snip)

Indeed comrade Dan. Some Stalinist.
Only stalinist would consider andy part of the Stalinist regime as
"democratic".
There was no "workers democracy" at ANY level under Stalin.

"Grouped around Joseph Stalin were those forces that represented the rising
Soviet bureaucracy. Stalin's group argued that the Russian government should
go about the task of building 'socialism in one country'. For this group,
'socialism' lost all foundation in organs of workers' democracy, soviets,
and the international economy of abundance. They came increasingly to
identify socialism with a bureaucratic monopoly of power which allowed no
place for organs of mass democracy. Further, they began to define socialism
as a state-controlled and planned economy which would industrialise backward
Russia on the basis of ruthless labour discipline and starvation wages."
http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/contemp/pamsetc/socfrombel/sfb_6.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2mvlf9

Only Stalinists would call "ruthless labour discipline and starvation wages"
"democracy".
But then you also support the Cuban regime.
Fits nicely in the pattern.

"If a single party claims the right to administer the state and the society;
if it imposes a monopoly of power by terror; if it does not permit the mass
of workers to express their opinions, their criticisms, their worries, and
their demands; if it excludes the workers from administration- then it is
inevitable that a widening gulf will develop between this omnipotent
bureaucracy and the mass of workers. Then, emancipation of the workers is
only a deception. And without real workers democracy in all areas, including
freedom of organization and press, real emancipation of the workers is
impossible."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1968/11/workersdem.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2sgxf7

Hungary 1956
A risen people - against Stalinism, for workers' democracy
"But power lay not with the workers and peasants, but firmly within the
bureaucratic hands of the Communist Party, under Rakosi, and under the total
control of the Kremlin. Corruption and mismanagement were rife. "Under
Communism, we should have a share in governing Hungary", said one Red Star
Tractor worker, "but instead we're the poorest people in the country. We're
just regarded as factory fodder."
http://www.geocities.com/socialistparty/LabHist/1956Hungary.htm
http://tinyurl.com/347rfc


People will also draw their conclusions from the fact that you don't even
consider the millions of people Stalin killed as his worst failure.
All you weep about is that his abusive sysyem did not survive. You criticize
those that reduced the Stalinist abuses, even though that was but by a
little as "revisionist".
Your desire for a continued Stalinists system is clear comrade Dan.
Your support for the Cuban Stalinist system is also very clear.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/stalinist_system.htm

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-31 16:10:27 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 31, 4:12 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist
countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."
In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)
Some "Stalinist!"
(snip)
Indeed comrade Dan. Some Stalinist.
Only stalinist would consider andy part of the Stalinist regime as
"democratic".
[snip]

No Stalinist would admit that Stalin ultimately failed as a
revolutionary for not instituting democratic reforms. Get real, Mr.
Lobbyist!

Once again, we see what a truly desperate liar you are! But I guess
this is just the kind of thing a desperate propgandist like you must
resort to when the truth is so seldom of any use to you.

Anyway, unless you have any other quotes from me to support your
outrageous claims here -- this one was a complete bust, you have to
admit -- do not expect a reply from me on this matter.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
ljsprojects
2007-03-31 18:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist
countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."
In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)
Some "Stalinist!"
(snip)
Indeed comrade Dan. Some Stalinist.
Only stalinist would consider andy part of the Stalinist regime as
"democratic".
[snip]
No Stalinist would admit that Stalin ultimately failed as a
revolutionary for not instituting democratic reforms. Get real, Mr.
Lobbyist!
Once again, we see what a truly desperate liar you are! But I guess
this is just the kind of thing a desperate propgandist like you must
resort to when the truth is so seldom of any use to you.
Anyway, unless you have any other quotes from me to support your
outrageous claims here -- this one was a complete bust, you have to
admit -- do not expect a reply from me on this matter.
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I went to your Website. Very good, factual and credible. I think you
have made a good defense of Castro and the revolution.

T.Schmidt
P.S. I suppose I am not the first one to congratulate you.
PL
2007-03-31 20:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
I went to your Website. Very good, factual and credible.
(snip)

Well that shows you are far from educated Herr SSchmidt or is this your
racist anti-Semite hatred against me acting up again (Herr SSchmidt thinks I
am Jewish)?
Nope.
Full of misquotes and lies like:

Dan Christensen's LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

To Dan Christensen:

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-01 05:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
I went to your Website. Very good, factual and credible.
Thank you.
Post by PL
(snip)
Well that shows you are far from educated Herr SSchmidt or is this your
racist anti-Semite hatred against me acting up again (Herr SSchmidt thinks I
am Jewish)?
Nope.
Dan Christensen's LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.
Mr. Lobbyist flies into a rage whenever someone criticizes his beloved
embargo, epecially those who should mind their own business -- like
Amnesty International. And he goes absolutely ballistic when the hired
help in Cuba won't toe Miami's line! (See featured article, "Do Cuban
dissidents support the US embargo?" at my website.)

Anyway, have a look here at his desperate attempt to find some kind of
"loophole" in AI's damning report. Good for a chuckle, if nothing
else.
Post by PL
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Poor desperate, lobbyist...

That was 4 years ago. In January of this year, AI reiterated its
condemnation of your beloved embargo saying:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population. According to UNICEF, the
availability of medicines and basic medical materials has decreased in
Cuba as a consequence of the US embargo against the island." (AI
website)

I don't know about you, Mr. Lobbyist, but that sure sounds immediate
and unconditional to me -- even four years later.

Mr. Lobbyist would actually have you believe that AI would support
these cruel sanctions of his for as long as it takes for certain of
his "preconditions" to be met. Yes, he is that desperate, that stupid
and that cruel! Whatever it takes, right, Mr. Lobbyist?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-01 12:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
I went to your Website. Very good, factual and credible.
Thank you.
Post by PL
(snip)
Well that shows you are far from educated Herr SSchmidt or is this your
racist anti-Semite hatred against me acting up again (Herr SSchmidt thinks I
am Jewish)?
Nope.
Dan Christensen's LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.
Mr. Lobbyist flies into a rage whenever someone criticizes his beloved
embargo,
(snip)

Nope.
I "fly in a rage" when people like you that support human rights abuses the
end of which HRW and Amnesty International have asked uses misquotes from
these organizations (out of context and without links) to support these
abuses.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Poor desperate, lobbyist...
That was 4 years ago.
(snip)

and neither then nor now Amnesty International has EVER asked for an
"immediate and unconditional" end to the trade sanctions as you TODAY
falsely claim on your website.
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted,
The complete quote that Serial Liar Dan Christensen does NOT provide (no
link either)

"The US embargo against Cuba continued. The Cuban government has
traditionally argued that it is justified in depriving dissidents of
fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly in order to
maintain the unity of the country against hostile forces abroad. Although
AI's mandate does not permit it to take a position on the US embargo against
Cuba or any other type of sanction, AI recognizes that the embargo has
increased hardship within Cuba and has contributed, for example, to poor
prison conditions. However, AI maintains that all states, irrespective of
any external threat, are obliged to fulfil the duties laid out in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the duty to respect
fundamental freedoms."
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webamrcountries/CUBA?OpenDocument

Post direct links comrade Dan.
You are quoting mere snippets without links to support your Stalinist
propaganda

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-01 15:33:08 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 1, 8:44 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Mr. Lobbyist flies into a rage whenever someone criticizes his beloved
embargo,
(snip)
Nope.
I "fly in a rage" when people like you that support human rights abuses the
end of which HRW and Amnesty International have asked uses misquotes from
these organizations (out of context and without links) to support these
abuses.
No "misquotes" here, Mr. Lobbyist.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Poor desperate, lobbyist...
That was 4 years ago.
(snip)
and neither then nor now Amnesty International has EVER asked for an
"immediate and unconditional" end to the trade sanctions as you TODAY
falsely claim on your website.
See what I mean, folks? Mr. Lobbyist is desperately searching here for
some kind of "loophole" that he hopes will "prove" that AI actually
supports these inhumane sanctions of his! Yes, he is THAT desperate,
THAT stupid, and THAT cruel.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted,
The complete quote that Serial Liar Dan Christensen does NOT provide (no
link either)
"The US embargo against Cuba continued. The Cuban government has
traditionally argued that it is justified in depriving dissidents of
fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly in order to
maintain the unity of the country against hostile forces abroad. Although
AI's mandate does not permit it to take a position on the US embargo against
Cuba or any other type of sanction, AI recognizes that the embargo has
increased hardship within Cuba and has contributed, for example, to poor
prison conditions. However, AI maintains that all states, irrespective of
any external threat, are obliged to fulfil the duties laid out in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the duty to respect
fundamental freedoms."http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webamrcountries/CUBA?OpenDocument
Ummmmm.... Did you notice that this was from six years ago. Mr.
Lobbyist? In January of this year, they reiterated their condemnation
of your beloved embargo saying:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population. According to UNICEF, the
availability of medicines and basic medical materials has decreased in
Cuba as a consequence of the US embargo against the island." (AI
website)

And that is no "misquote!"

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-01 15:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Mr. Lobbyist flies into a rage whenever someone criticizes his beloved
embargo,
(snip)
Nope.
I "fly in a rage" when people like you that support human rights abuses the
end of which HRW and Amnesty International have asked uses misquotes from
these organizations (out of context and without links) to support these
abuses.
No "misquotes" here, Mr. Lobbyist.
False.

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Poor desperate, lobbyist...
That was 4 years ago.
(snip)
and neither then nor now Amnesty International has EVER asked for an
"immediate and unconditional" end to the trade sanctions as you TODAY
falsely claim on your website.
See what I mean, folks?
(snip)

Dan Christensen can't post any direct quotes and has to admit that the false
claim is still on his website.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted,
The complete quote that Serial Liar Dan Christensen does NOT provide (no
link either)
"The US embargo against Cuba continued. The Cuban government has
traditionally argued that it is justified in depriving dissidents of
fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly in order to
maintain the unity of the country against hostile forces abroad. Although
AI's mandate does not permit it to take a position on the US embargo against
Cuba or any other type of sanction, AI recognizes that the embargo has
increased hardship within Cuba and has contributed, for example, to poor
prison conditions. However, AI maintains that all states, irrespective of
any external threat, are obliged to fulfil the duties laid out in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the duty to respect
fundamental
freedoms."http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webamrcountries/CUBA?OpenDocument
Ummmmm.... Did you notice that this was from six years ago.
Yep.
in the mean time the US has become the largest food supplier of Cuba, no?
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted,
(snip)
Post by Dan Christensen
And that is no "misquote!"
It isn't even a quote comrade Dan as there are - of course - no links.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-01 18:05:16 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 1, 11:56 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
"The US embargo against Cuba continued. The Cuban government has
traditionally argued that it is justified in depriving dissidents of
fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly in order to
maintain the unity of the country against hostile forces abroad. Although
AI's mandate does not permit it to take a position on the US embargo against
Cuba or any other type of sanction, AI recognizes that the embargo has
increased hardship within Cuba and has contributed, for example, to poor
prison conditions. However, AI maintains that all states, irrespective of
any external threat, are obliged to fulfil the duties laid out in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the duty to respect
fundamental
freedoms."http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webamrcountries/CUBA?OpenDocument
Ummmmm.... Did you notice that this was from six years ago.
Yep.
in the mean time the US has become the largest food supplier of Cuba, no?
Do you think AI was lying in January of this year when they wrote:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population. According to UNICEF, the
availability of medicines and basic medical materials has decreased in
Cuba as a consequence of the US embargo against the island." (AI
website)

What other lies are they telling, Mr. Lobbyist?

And as for food imports, the LA Times (AP) reported last week that the
Cuba imported $340 million from the US in 2006. That amounts to only
about 8 cents worth of food (at world market prices) per person per
day -- an amount, the article said, that has been decreasing each year
since the Bush regime set out to intensify these cruel sanctions of
yours in 2004. This paltry sum, even if given freely, could not even
begin to make up for decades of genodical trade sanctions that
continue to this day to harm the most vulnerable members of Cuban
society. AI was not fooled by your self-serving rationalizations, Mr.
Lobbyist. Neither were HRW and the UN General Assembly. (See previous
postings here)

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-01 20:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Tranlsated: Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen snips what he can't refute:

OUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
"The US embargo against Cuba continued. The Cuban government has
traditionally argued that it is justified in depriving dissidents of
fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly in order to
maintain the unity of the country against hostile forces abroad. Although
AI's mandate does not permit it to take a position on the US embargo against
Cuba or any other type of sanction, AI recognizes that the embargo has
increased hardship within Cuba and has contributed, for example, to poor
prison conditions. However, AI maintains that all states, irrespective of
any external threat, are obliged to fulfil the duties laid out in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the duty to respect
fundamental
freedoms."http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webamrcountries/CUBA?OpenDocument
Ummmmm.... Did you notice that this was from six years ago.
Yep.
in the mean time the US has become the largest food supplier of Cuba, no?
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be
(snip)

Link please.
Why not post it?
Is it the fact that the page is loaded with condemnation of the Cuban
regime's human rights abuses or the fact that the Un report dates back to
1995?
Post by Dan Christensen
And as for food imports, the LA Times (AP) reported last week that the
Cuba imported $340 million from the US in 2006.
(snip)

Post a link comrade Dan.

This is how you quote someone:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

In fact: the head of the Cuban food import agency said: 560 million, no?

Estados Unidos es el principal proveedor de Cuba en ese rubro y su sexto
socio comercial, a pesar del bloqueo económico que Washington aplica contra
la isla desde hace más de cuatro décadas.
En 2006, Cuba compró 560 millones de dólares en alimentos a compañías
estadunidenses y desde que inició estas operaciones, en 2001, ha pagado más
de 2 mil 260 millones de dólares, indicó Alvarez.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2007/03/29/index.php?section=mundo&article=030n1mun

Más allá de la polémica, Cuba reconoce que Estados Unidos es hoy por hoy
uno de sus "principales suministradores de alimentos", y prueba de ello
es que las operaciones durante 2006, según Pedro Alvarez, presidente de
la importadora estatal Alimport, superaron los 560 millones de dólares.

Los negocios entre empresarios estadounidenses y el gobierno cubano
suman ya 2.200 millones de dólares desde diciembre de 2001, cuando el
entonces presidente Bill Clinton abrió la posibilidad de vender
productos agropecuarios a la isla.
http://www.invertia.com/noticias/noticia.asp?subclasid=&clasid=&idNoticia=1722442

PL
torresdD
2007-04-01 20:59:11 UTC
Permalink
http://bestcyrano.org/IMG/FACE_WAR/albumfow/slides/hamasReveredYasin.htm
PL
2007-04-01 21:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresdD
http://bestcyrano.org/IMG/FACE_WAR/albumfow/slides/hamasReveredYasin.htm
Doris "Che spotting" Torres:
For those who don't know: Doris is a "Che T-shirt" spotter that reports on
her finds to the Cuban communist newspaper Granma
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/di3/52vuelta-i.html
Dan Christensen
2007-04-02 18:54:25 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 1, 4:43 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be
(snip)
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons:

Do you think AI was lying in January of this year when they wrote:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a
range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population. According to UNICEF, the
availability of medicines and basic medical materials has decreased
in
Cuba as a consequence of the US embargo against the island." (AI
website)

Forget your tired old lies and evasions. Just answer the question, Mr.
Lobbyist.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
krp
2007-04-03 09:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be
(snip)
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population
Your problem Danny, continues to be how you deliberately MISREPRESENT what
Amnesty International and other agencies have said.
PL
2007-04-03 10:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Tranlsated: Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen snips what he can't refute:

OUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

On Cuban imports from the US Dan claimed 360 million,
In fact: the head of the Cuban food import agency said: 560 million, no?

Estados Unidos es el principal proveedor de Cuba en ese rubro y su sexto
socio comercial, a pesar del bloqueo económico que Washington aplica contra
la isla desde hace más de cuatro décadas.
En 2006, Cuba compró 560 millones de dólares en alimentos a compañías
estadunidenses y desde que inició estas operaciones, en 2001, ha pagado más
de 2 mil 260 millones de dólares, indicó Alvarez.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2007/03/29/index.php?section=mundo&article=030n1mun

Más allá de la polémica, Cuba reconoce que Estados Unidos es hoy por hoy
uno de sus "principales suministradores de alimentos", y prueba de ello
es que las operaciones durante 2006, según Pedro Alvarez, presidente de
la importadora estatal Alimport, superaron los 560 millones de dólares.

Los negocios entre empresarios estadounidenses y el gobierno cubano
suman ya 2.200 millones de dólares desde diciembre de 2001, cuando el
entonces presidente Bill Clinton abrió la posibilidad de vender
productos agropecuarios a la isla.
http://www.invertia.com/noticias/noticia.asp?subclasid=&clasid=&idNoticia=1722442
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be
(snip)
(snip)

Post a link comrade Dan.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar: (posted
every time Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen post his lie about me)

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
PL
2007-03-31 20:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist
countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."
In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)
Some "Stalinist!"
(snip)
Indeed comrade Dan. Some Stalinist.
Only stalinist would consider andy part of the Stalinist regime as
"democratic".
[snip]
No Stalinist would admit that Stalin ultimately failed
(snip)

False.
You said he failed as his system was aborted by the "revisionists"
That is EXACTLY what a Stalinist would say. You would have wanted him to be
more "forceful" to ensure no "revisionist" had ever had the opportunity to
"undo" some of his abuses.
You like the Stalinists system of "total control" where all parts of society
are controlled by a regime to ensure that NO ONE can express himself
anywhere without facing sanctions. That you have shown lots of times.
Nobody but a Stalinist would claim anything as ludicrous that there was ANY
democracy whatsoever at ANY level under Stalin.
You "outed" yourself as an unrepentant Stalinist comrade Dan and Nothing can
undo that.

Only stalinist would consider andy part of the Stalinist regime as
"democratic".
There was no "workers democracy" at ANY level under Stalin.

"Grouped around Joseph Stalin were those forces that represented the rising
Soviet bureaucracy. Stalin's group argued that the Russian government should
go about the task of building 'socialism in one country'. For this group,
'socialism' lost all foundation in organs of workers' democracy, soviets,
and the international economy of abundance. They came increasingly to
identify socialism with a bureaucratic monopoly of power which allowed no
place for organs of mass democracy. Further, they began to define socialism
as a state-controlled and planned economy which would industrialise backward
Russia on the basis of ruthless labour discipline and starvation wages."
http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/contemp/pamsetc/socfrombel/sfb_6.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2mvlf9

Only Stalinists would call "ruthless labour discipline and starvation wages"
"democracy".
But then you also support the Cuban regime.
Fits nicely in the pattern.

"If a single party claims the right to administer the state and the society;
if it imposes a monopoly of power by terror; if it does not permit the mass
of workers to express their opinions, their criticisms, their worries, and
their demands; if it excludes the workers from administration- then it is
inevitable that a widening gulf will develop between this omnipotent
bureaucracy and the mass of workers. Then, emancipation of the workers is
only a deception. And without real workers democracy in all areas, including
freedom of organization and press, real emancipation of the workers is
impossible."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1968/11/workersdem.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2sgxf7

Hungary 1956
A risen people - against Stalinism, for workers' democracy
"But power lay not with the workers and peasants, but firmly within the
bureaucratic hands of the Communist Party, under Rakosi, and under the total
control of the Kremlin. Corruption and mismanagement were rife. "Under
Communism, we should have a share in governing Hungary", said one Red Star
Tractor worker, "but instead we're the poorest people in the country. We're
just regarded as factory fodder."
http://www.geocities.com/socialistparty/LabHist/1956Hungary.htm
http://tinyurl.com/347rfc


People will also draw their conclusions from the fact that you don't even
consider the millions of people Stalin killed as his worst failure.
All you weep about is that his abusive sysyem did not survive. You criticize
those that reduced the Stalinist abuses, even though that was but by a
little as "revisionist".
Your desire for a continued Stalinists system is clear comrade Dan.
Your support for the Cuban Stalinist system is also very clear.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/stalinist_system.htm

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-01 04:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than in the
capitalist
countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."
In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)
How is the Cuban electoral system different from that in the former
U.S.S.R?

While there are superficial similarities in the Cuban and Soviet
national elections, there are critical differences in the role to the
Communist Party, the nomination process and even the voting
procedures. From Time-Life Books' The Soviet Union (p. 139-40), we
have:

"The [Soviet electoral] process begins a few months before the voting,
with mass meetings to nominate candidates. Typically these meetings
are stage-managed so that although three people are nominated for a
single seat in the Supreme Soviet, only one of them--the one chosen
for the post by the party secretary of the district--can be elected.
After a suitable lapse of time, the dummy candidates graciously bow
out, leaving only the one candidate. This political gavotte goes on
all over the country so that the nominations will produce a balanced,
predetermined list of candidates: about a third of the 1,500
candidates will be important party functionaries, government
ministers, and top military and police officers; the remainder will
provide token representation for various ethnic groups, occupations
and even ages. . . .

"The voter then faces a ballot paper with one name on it. Dropping
that ballot in the box constitutes a "yes" vote. To cast a "no"
ballot--writing in another name is forbidden--the voter must strike
out the name. However, the voters are not sheep and occasionally
refuse to react as expected. If an incompetent party secretary
nominates someone who is widely disliked, there may be so many "no"
votes that the candidate is defeated. Then a new candidate and a new
election (and generally a new party secretary) are called for."


John Dornberg, in his "The Soviet Union Today" (p. 76), describes the
process of voting "no" as follows:

"It meant that instead of picking up a ballot and immediately dropping
it into the box, such a voter walked past the disapproving stares of
all the Party and election officials to one of the voting booths at
the far end of the polling place in order to cross out the candidates
name."

Although, as I understand it, the degree of Party control varied
across the Soviet Union--very strict in Ukraine, much less so in the
east and the Baltic republics, for example--it seems even the most
fundamental aspect of democratic elections, the secret ballot, was not
well established in large parts of the country even in the 1980's.
This is not the case in Cuba today where voters may fill out, leave
blank or spoil their ballots in the privacy of the voting booth. No
one else will know how an individual votes.

In Cuba, candidates for delegates to the National Assembly are
nominated not the Communist Party, but by the democratically (and
competitively) elected Municipal Assemblies in consultation with the
various mass organizations (unions, and farmers', students' and
women's organizations). The Communist Party of Cuba, by law, is not
even allowed to nominate or endorse any individual candidates.

The Evolution of Electoral Democracy in Cuba

In 1974, Cuba began to experiment with electoral democracy at the
municipal level. By 1976, in Cuba, there were nation-wide democratic
and competitive municipal elections. The Municipal Assemblies, at that
time, elected delegates to the Provincial and National Assemblies.

China, it should be noted, has only as late as 1998 began to dabble in
a limited way in electoral democracy at the village level. These very
tentative steps were lauded at the time by US president Clinton and
former president Carter, while similar and even more advanced
developments in Cuba were completely ignored.

In the late 1980's, there was a great clamor for democratic reforms
throughout the socialist bloc, including Cuba. Fidel Castro is said to
have cautioned the Soviet leadership about this problem in 1987. They
chose to ignore or suppress the problem until, it would seem, it was
too late. The resulting collapse, from which most regions of the
former USSR have never recovered, has been well documented. This, of
course, did not happen in Cuba. There, the leadership responded by
initiating a process of genuine, public consultation, the outcome of
which was the revised Constitution of 1992. (August, p. 231-3) With
these reforms, the role of the Communist Party in elections was
further diminished and there were direct elections to all three levels
of government--municipal, provincial and national.


Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-01 12:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
From postings on this list and readings elsewhere, I get the impression --
correct me if I am wrong -- that the Stalinist era was characterized by a
direct, workers' democracy at the factory and local levels. There was
clearly more industrial democracy in the USSR during this time than
in
the
capitalist
countries.http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0131-danchr.asp
What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons: On the very next line,
"At the highest level of planning, however, it seems that Stalin
himself was very much in charge. When he died in 1953, workers seemed
to have no institutional recourse to the schemes of his revisionist
successors. I suggest only that this situation be avoided in the
future by providing such recourse."
In other words, Stalin was ultimately a failure as a revolutionary
because, whatever he may have achieved, he failed to institute
democratic reforms (unlike the case in Cuba -- See "Democracy in Cuba"
at my website.)
How is the Cuban electoral system different from that in the former
U.S.S.R?
(snip)
Not much at all comrade Dan as the totalitarian system equally ensures that
NO candidate that opposes the regime can even get on the ballot.
The means applied are very similar: total control over every aspect of life
to ensure obedience.
Cuba has a Stalinist system (even other communists admit that) and you as a
Canadian Stalinist support that wholeheartedly.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/stalinist_system.htm

What the UN said about "elections" in Cuba:
"the electoral process is so tightly controlled that the final phase, the
voting itself, could be dispensed with without the final result being
substantially affected"
See: http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/vol4/cubachr.htm

More facts and video at:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/elections_in_cuba.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
"The [Soviet electoral] process begins a few months before the voting,
with mass meetings to nominate candidates. Typically these meetings are
stage-managed
(snip)
Like the "selection meetings" for "candidates" in Cuba "stage managed" by
the CDR.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/cdr.htm

The UN is correct in it's assesment.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar: (posted each
time Comrade Dan's lie of "lobbyist" is in the message)

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-01 15:44:50 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 1, 8:54 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
How is the Cuban electoral system different from that in the former
U.S.S.R?
(snip)
Not much at all comrade Dan as the totalitarian system equally ensures that
NO candidate that opposes the regime can even get on the ballot.
[snip]

Repeatedly debunked here. (Likewise the other points you raise here.)
See, for example, the discussion in the thread, "Cubans Ready to
Select Candidates." Also see "Democracy in Cuba" at my website. There
I address the following frequently asked questions:


How are candidates nominated for delegates...
to the Municipal Assemblies?
to the Provincial and National Assemblies?
Why not let anyone stand and let the electorate decide?
How are election campaigns conducted...
for the Municipal Assemblies?
for the Provincial and National Assemblies?
How accountable are elected delegates?
What were the results of the 1998 National elections?
Was Fidel Castro elected President of Cuba?
Who got elected to the National Assembly?
What does the National Assembly actually do?
What real choice is there in Cuba's one-party system?
How are abuses of power prevented?
Why have candidates for the Provincial and National Assemblies never
been rejected by voters?
Why have no opposition candidates ever been elected?
How is the Cuban electoral system any different from that in the
former U.S.S.R.?
Why is only one political party allowed in Cuba?
What about claims that Cuba is not a democracy?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-01 15:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
How is the Cuban electoral system different from that in the former
U.S.S.R?
(snip)
Not much at all comrade Dan as the totalitarian system equally ensures that
NO candidate that opposes the regime can even get on the ballot.
[snip]
Repeatedly debunked here. (
(snip)

Never "debunked" and confirmed by the UN (the quote and links you snipped in
despair)

What the UN said about "elections" in Cuba:
"the electoral process is so tightly controlled that the final phase, the
voting itself, could be dispensed with without the final result being
substantially affected"
See: http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/vol4/cubachr.htm

What Dan Christensen, Canadian Stalinist and serial liar snipped in despair:

Cuba has a Stalinist system (even other communists admit that) and you as a
Canadian Stalinist support that wholeheartedly.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/stalinist_system.htm

More facts and video at:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/elections_in_cuba.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
"The [Soviet electoral] process begins a few months before the voting,
with mass meetings to nominate candidates. Typically these meetings are
stage-managed
(snip)
Like the "selection meetings" for "candidates" in Cuba "stage managed" by
the CDR.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/cdr.htm

The UN is correct in it's assesment.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar: (posted each
time Comrade Dan's lie of "lobbyist" is in the message)

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-04-01 18:20:26 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 1, 11:59 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
How is the Cuban electoral system different from that in the former
U.S.S.R?
(snip)
Not much at all comrade Dan as the totalitarian system equally ensures that
NO candidate that opposes the regime can even get on the ballot.
[snip]
Repeatedly debunked here. (
(snip)
Never "debunked" and confirmed by the UN (the quote and links you snipped in
despair)
"the electoral process is so tightly controlled that the final phase, the
voting itself, could be dispensed with without the final result being
substantially affected"
See:http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/vol4/cubachr.htm
This very report is debunked line by line at my website. (See
"Democracy in Cuba" there.)
Post by PL
Cuba has a Stalinist system (even other communists admit that) and you as a
Canadian Stalinist support that wholeheartedly.
[snip]

Already debunked here.

The Cuban electoral system is way in advance of anything in the former
USSR -- in large parts of the country, they didn't even have a secret
ballot! And it puts the corrupt, money-based system in the US to
shame, too. I recently read that it will take $1 billion to get into
the White House next year! What kind of "democracy" is that -- one
DOLLAR, one vote??? Get real, Mr. Lobbyist!

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-04-01 20:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
How is the Cuban electoral system different from that in the former
U.S.S.R?
(snip)
Not much at all comrade Dan as the totalitarian system equally ensures that
NO candidate that opposes the regime can even get on the ballot.
[snip]
Repeatedly debunked here. (
(snip)
Never "debunked" and confirmed by the UN (the quote and links you snipped in
despair)
"the electoral process is so tightly controlled that the final phase, the
voting itself, could be dispensed with without the final result being
substantially affected"
See: http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/vol4/cubachr.htm
This very report is debunked
(snip)

Your "yapping" is far from "debunking" anything Mr. Serial liar
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Cuba has a Stalinist system (even other communists admit that) and you as a
Canadian Stalinist support that wholeheartedly.
[snip]
Already debunked here.
Never debunked Candian Stalinist
Post by Dan Christensen
The Cuban electoral system is way in advance of anything in the former
(snip)

It is as effective in repressing dissent, no?
Get real.

What Dan Christensen, Canadian Stalinist and serial liar snipped in despair:

Cuba has a Stalinist system (even other communists admit that) and you as a
Canadian Stalinist support that wholeheartedly.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/stalinist_system.htm

More facts and video at:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/elections_in_cuba.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
"The [Soviet electoral] process begins a few months before the voting,
with mass meetings to nominate candidates. Typically these meetings are
stage-managed
(snip)
Like the "selection meetings" for "candidates" in Cuba "stage managed" by
the CDR.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/cdr.htm

The UN is correct in it's assesment.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar: (posted each
time Comrade Dan's lie of "lobbyist" is in the message)

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-30 21:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snip]
Post by ljsprojects
Dan
Only an idiot cannot see a difference between 3.000.000.000 starving
to death
and 3.000.000 having limited food supply.
You are waisting your time.
Thanks for your concern, but where else would you get to kick the butt
of an ultra-right-wing lobbyist like this on a daily basis? For only a
few minutes a day, it's fun and socially productive at the same time.
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Does he get paid for this kind of work? What a waste of money!
Then you are right, the more he posts, the worse the extreme right
looks. A useful fool, I may say. In my opinion, you are doing an
excellent work.

T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what
the Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
P.S. [2] Many years ago I also said tha if Bush got elected he would
be the worse U.S.president in history, now everybody believes the
same. Usually facts make me feel so superior...
P.S. [3] I am in Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta. Where are you? I am old,
retired and live from my savings. I left the USA in times of Nixon,
and I never regreted it. My experience under Nixon showed to me that
Bush would be worse.
PL
2007-03-30 21:24:51 UTC
Permalink
"ljsprojects" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)

The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
This is what Venezuelans say about Castro and Chavez:

Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism

Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.

While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.

When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.

Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."

Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.

The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."

http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-percent-v_28A849493.shtml

It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.

But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/15757


PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-30 22:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/15757
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever
before.

T.Schmidt
P.S. Liars like you don't go to Heaven.
PL
2007-03-31 08:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/15757
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't waqnt to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-31 10:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't waqnt to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Castro is not ruling Venezuela.

T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent
job..
PL
2007-03-31 13:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it. Others do.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-31 15:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it. Others do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I really don't want to exchange postings with you, I answer only for
my readers. I want to leave you alone but you keep interfering with my
postings.

I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity that doesn't allow you to see further than your snub
sized nose when you read my old postings..

As an obvious hint I told you many times that *what I post may not be
the true* and you fell for it. That proves my point, your do not
think. I repeat for a final time, I am not a racist. Get a dictionary
and stop the harassment and slandering.

I have removed your camouflge, you are a liar and a hypocrite..

T.Schmidt
P.S. Show some decency and tell us who you are, do you have any
credentials? Don't hide behind yout PC, show us your best
accomplishments in life. A good one would be enough, you don't have to
show all your life. Ia have shown you mine, now, reciprocate (or do
you have something to hide?)
PL
2007-03-31 20:21:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the
"21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it. Others do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.

(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)

Nope.
Proven by your own words:

Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish

Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres semita?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?dmode=source&hl=en

"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para verificarlo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?dmode=source&hl=en

Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al Señor
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474cd66207?dmode=source&hl=en


Your delusions of "Arian superiority" are clear:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

On his lying nature:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-31 22:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16% from 2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said they did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it. Others do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are
unreasonable.

T.Schmidt
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
PL
2007-04-01 12:55:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it. Others do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-04-01 13:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22 percent said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with "expropriations of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it. Others do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

1 - I am having a very good life - for a person that is 68 yr old. I
have always been a winner and have very pleasant memories, nothing to
hide or be ashamed of..

2 - Of course people know who and what I am. I have told my life many
times in usenet, others know me personally from far before. I am
honest and sincere, and when I lie is to make fun of assholes.

T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] I expect this to be my last exchange with you, I have never
seen anybody so limited as you ( I have had thousands of students, you
are the worse by far). May God help you.
P.S. [2] Today is Palm Sunday. Remember to go to Church in Easter, you
need to get in peace with God.
PL
2007-04-01 13:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22
percent
said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with
"expropriations
of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it.
Others
do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] I expect this to be my last exchange with you, I have never seen
anybody so limited as you
Tranlated: you have never been faced with anyone that exposed your lies so
clearly and that limited you as much in your lies.
I know you hate that fact old racist.
But I only quoted what YOU said to excpose what you are.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-04-01 14:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is
what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22
percent
said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with
"expropriations
of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is
harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight relationship with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style
communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever
before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist flaw you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive things, but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it.
Others
do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] I expect this to be my last exchange with you, I have never seen
anybody so limited as you
Tranlated: you have never been faced with anyone that exposed your lies so
clearly and that limited you as much in your lies.
I know you hate that fact old racist.
But I only quoted what YOU said to excpose what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Don't be so full of shit, you are not the first one to call me racist.
For many years I have been called a Nazi, the first one was Lipzy
Narvaez, a beautiful and intelligent Jewish girl from Venezuela who
helped setting up Ulapo in SCV. She doesn't post too frequently now.

Being old is something I have said many times, so what is your
contribution?

And the messages that you "copy and paste" so dilligently were made by
me just to identify your personality, you are keeping the crap I
expressly made for you. You have been used. I am not a racist, but I
am good at identifying your kind of people.

T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] Everybody who sees me ssociates my name with the race
problem. But in reality I don't accept more than one race [that means
there is only one race and it has been accepted almost universally by
scientists], however, I am an expert in the subject and enjoy talikng
about it. I still believe thare are differences among people, some
are better and others are worse, which reauires little expalanation,
since it is obvious.
P.S. [2] I suppose you will never understand what I think about you.
Pleas stop posting answers to my very interesting messages, let others
participate. You don't own usenet.
P.S. [3] Lipzy is no longer young, so she is not as beautiful as some
may think. What I mean is that being a grandmother she is not too bad
looking.
PL
2007-04-01 15:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez is
what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22
percent
said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the "21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with the
United States." While a sector of the population does support President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite
presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with
"expropriations
of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is
harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight
relationship
with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style
communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever
before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist
flaw
you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive
things,
but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it.
Others
do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta,
comprobada
a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo,
lo
que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are
unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] I expect this to be my last exchange with you, I have never seen
anybody so limited as you
Tranlated: you have never been faced with anyone that exposed your lies so
clearly and that limited you as much in your lies.
I know you hate that fact old racist.
But I only quoted what YOU said to excpose what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Don't be so full of shit,
I am not.
You are
Post by ljsprojects
you are not the first one to call me racist.
Kind of makes one wonder, no?
Post by ljsprojects
For many years I have been called a Nazi,
well, calling other people "subhuman" because you think they are Jewish and
saying things like "Deutchland uber Alles" (Goebbels words) willl have that
effect.
Get a life. You are an anti-Semite racist Herr SSchmidt and your own words
prove it.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-04-01 16:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez
is
what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey conducted by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22
percent
said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the
"21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social
programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with
the
United States." While a sector of the population does support
President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions
his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with
"expropriations
of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is
harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight
relationship
with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style
communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever
before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like
Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to imitate Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent
job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist
flaw
you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive
things,
but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it.
Others
do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta,
comprobada
a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo,
lo
que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] I expect this to be my last exchange with you, I have never seen
anybody so limited as you
Tranlated: you have never been faced with anyone that exposed your lies so
clearly and that limited you as much in your lies.
I know you hate that fact old racist.
But I only quoted what YOU said to excpose what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Don't be so full of shit,
I am not.
You are
Post by ljsprojects
you are not the first one to call me racist.
Kind of makes one wonder, no?
Post by ljsprojects
For many years I have been called a Nazi,
well, calling other people "subhuman" because you think they are Jewish and
saying things like "Deutchland uber Alles" (Goebbels words) willl have that
effect.
Get a life. You are an anti-Semite racist Herr SSchmidt and your own words
prove it.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I gave you a hint [about lying sometimes] and very directly I told you
I am not a racist. Evicently you have nothing between your ears but
salt water. That you got so angry made me think you were a Holocaust
survivor, now I see you are just plain chicken shit. Were you a Jew I
would have immediately apologized. My first wife was Jewish and so are
almost all my friends and associates (remember I am a scientist).

It is spelled über. Where did you learn German in a Pub? [ü is made
with <Alt> 129 ]

*Deutschland über Alles* is the Old German National Hymn, is the
equivalent of Rule Brittania.

I used the word 'subhumano' which does not exist in Spanish. To a
person with average intelligence that would have meant something was
hidden in the message.

My conclusion is the same, you are dumb, dumb, dum.. And I don't think
I will ever been able to civilize you, you belong where ever they may
keep feeding you. Sell your PC, think on all the money you are going
to get for it. You could buy a dictionary.


T.Schmidt
P.S. Why is that I always have to educate the other people? Certainly
I must be superior.
PL
2007-04-01 20:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Does he get paid for this kind of work?
(snip)
The only one that call this "work" is Dan Christensen.
You are just a racist stalker I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] Long time ago I said the best propaganda for Chávez
is
what
the
Venezuelan extreme right says. I should have included Castro.
Eighty-six percent Venezuelans reject Cuba-like socialism
Forty-five percent of respondents in the latest survey
conducted
by
research firm Hinterlaces "disagree with" plans to establish the
so-called "21st-century socialism" in the country, while 22
percent
said
"Don't know" or "No answer," according to AFP.
While 33 percent agree with the proposal to implement the
"21st-century
socialism," most of them believe "socialism" involves social
programs
and solidarity.
When asked whether they would support "implementation of Cuba-like
socialism," 86 percent of respondents said no.
Seventy-eight percent rejected "violent, rude confrontation with
the
United States." While a sector of the population does support
President
Hugo Chávez' "brave" and "sovereign" stances, it also questions
his
"excess and rudeness."
Sixty-one percent of respondents rejected indefinite presidential
reelection, and 86 percent showed disagreement with
"expropriations
of
private companies" by the Venezuelan Government.
The survey found that 85 percent of Venezuelans believe "what is
harming
both Chávez' Government and the revolution the most is insecurity,
corruption and the inefficiency of his officials."
http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/03/28/en_pol_art_eighty-six-perce...
It just shows the "disapproval rate" of Castro' system up by 16%
from
2005.
But Venezuelans seem ambivalent about Chávez's tight
relationship
with
Castro. Seven out of 10 respondents to the Datanalisis poll said
they
did
not support the idea of Venezuela fully imitating the Cuban-style
communist
system.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-22-chavaz-usat_x.htmhttp:/...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
The truth is that Venezuela is much better under Chavez than ever
before.
The truth is that Veneuelans don't want to live in a system like
Castro's.
That has been confirmed in poll after poll.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Castro is not ruling Venezuela.
and the Venezuelan don't wan't the one "ruling" Venezuela to
imitate
Cuba.
That is confirmed.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. You are a loser, don't you see? Get an education and a decent
job..
Anti-Semite racist like you are "losers" Herr SSchmidt.
The need to feel "superior" to compensate for their flaws.
You would better get an education and overcome that basic racist
flaw
you
have.
It makes you say and do the weirdest and most self-destructive
things,
but
then I guess you are so limited by the flaw you don't realize it.
Others
do.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I really don't want to exchange postings with you,
that is why to get in to threads like this to attack me you mean.
Get al life Herr SSchmidt. You are a self-confessed habitual liar.
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
I say what I like, asshole. If you think I am antisemite it is your
innate stupidity
(snip)
Nope.
Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish
Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres
semita?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?...
"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y
posiblemente
judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para
verificarlo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?...
Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al
Señorhttp://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474c...
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta,
comprobada
a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo,
lo
que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not going to answer your postings, obviously you are unreasonable.
Nope. I am factual and expose your lies
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. You have made me feel so superior...Bye!
Get a life old racist.
People have seen who and what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] I expect this to be my last exchange with you, I have never seen
anybody so limited as you
Tranlated: you have never been faced with anyone that exposed your lies so
clearly and that limited you as much in your lies.
I know you hate that fact old racist.
But I only quoted what YOU said to excpose what you are.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Don't be so full of shit,
I am not.
You are
Post by ljsprojects
you are not the first one to call me racist.
Kind of makes one wonder, no?
Post by ljsprojects
For many years I have been called a Nazi,
well, calling other people "subhuman" because you think they are Jewish and
saying things like "Deutchland uber Alles" (Goebbels words) willl have that
effect.
Get a life. You are an anti-Semite racist Herr SSchmidt and your own words
prove it.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I gave you a hint [about lying sometimes]
and I have exposed a lot of them.
By the way: we knew you wer a pathetic liar even without the "hint".
It is actually impossible to hide the fact that you are an habitual liar.
Post by ljsprojects
and very directly I told you
I am not a racist.
(snip)

and that was exposed as a lie.
You have proven by your own words that you are an Anti-semite and a racist.

Your words racist: you call me "subhuman" because like your pal Jose Ricardo
you think I am Jewish

Tu pareces judío. ¿Eres semita?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/11073c528b9156b7?dmode=source&hl=en

"a sabemos que eres bruto, mentiroso, hipócrita, belga y posiblemente judío
malo. Lo de gay lo sospecho, pero no tengo
suficientes datos para verificarlo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4631e044875562f4?dmode=source&hl=en

Yo creo que eres un judío de los malos, como los que crucificaron al Señor
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.puerto-rico/msg/ece147474cd66207?dmode=source&hl=en


Your delusions of "Arian superiority" are clear:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

On his lying nature:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 19:55:46 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 30, 2:20 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
We are STILL waiting for your proof that this aid amounts to more than
a few cents per person per YEAR.
It amounts to the diffrence between hunger and being fed comrade Dan.
It amounts to the difference between diesease and decent life comrade Danj.
[snip]

So, you STILL have no proof that it amounts to more than a few cents
per person per year. Thought so.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
[snip]
It seems not even your mafia pals have bought into this wacky little
conspiracy theory
(snip)
No conspiracy theory comrade Dan.
A fact reported in the press and snipped by desperate Dan.
[snip]

Almost a year later, mo one but you, not even your mafia pals in
Miami, are suggesting that Cubans went hungry to pay for these light
bulbs. But you always were a bit of a loose cannon weren't you, Mr.
Lobbyist? (Hee, hee, hee!)
Post by PL
These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html
[snip]

These bulbs were not being sold, they were being given away. Retail
value is no proof of actual cost. Again, we are STILL waiting for your
proof that these light bulbs, manufactured in China and also
distributed cost-free to Cuban households, cost the government
anything all.

Until you can produce the required evidence to support any of your
outrageous claims above, do not expect a reply from me on these
matters.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 20:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
By which comrade Dan means he snips what he can't refute.

Like:
The WFP only steps in in case of need.
According to Granma over 3 million Cubans have received WFP aid over the
years.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
We are STILL waiting for your proof that this aid amounts to more than
a few cents per person per YEAR.
It amounts to the diffrence between hunger and being fed comrade Dan.
It amounts to the difference between diesease and decent life comrade
Dan.
[snip]
So, you STILL have no proof that it amounts to more than a few cents
per person per year. Thought so.
I have shown it amounts to thousnads of tons of food.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
[snip]
It seems not even your mafia pals have bought into this wacky little
conspiracy theory
(snip)
No conspiracy theory comrade Dan.
A fact reported in the press and snipped by desperate Dan.
[snip]
Almost a year later,
(snip)

and nobody has denied the facts except you.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html
[snip]
These bulbs were not being sold, they were being given away.
(snip)

Yep.
Bought by Castro and given away to Jamaicans that had food an light bulbs
while the WFP had to feed the Cuban people.
ANY DOLLAR spent was criminally diverted from a needy Cuban people.

WHAT CANADIAN STALINIST DAN CHRISTENSEN SNIPPED:

While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
That is the real "perspective".

Important energy-saving initiative
published: Saturday | May 27, 2006


These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html


( the data is in Jamaican dollar $2Bn Jamaican is about U$ 30 million.)


Note that while Castro hands out light bulbs to people that have them (older
ones) and food while the WFP programs to feed 773,000 people in Cuba were
underfunded.


Kinds of says what his priorities are, no?
On the WFP aid:
see:
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/104230_0603.pdf
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/project_docs/100320.pdf
http://www.wfp.org/operations/current_operations/BR/100320_0411.pdf

On the need of the Cuban people and the tons of food that had to be
provided:

Cuba
(a) Drought continues persist in the eastern provinces, including the
Province of Camagüey.
(b) Distribution under Emergency Operation (EMOP) 10423.0 is ongoing.
(c) Procurement of 233 tons of vegetable oil and 368 tons of beans through
the regional office has just been requested to cover urgent needs for one
month.
(d) EMOP 10423.0 is resourced at 20 percent of the total requirement. The
operation also received IRA 1.2 million. US$ 2,953,800 is urgently needed to
meet outstanding requirements.
http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=78&Key=683#192

"A three-month Emergency Operation for Cuba, Emergency Operation (EMOP)
10423.0, approved on 28 April 2005, will reach 773,000 people by providing
assistance
to vulnerable groups (pregnant and nursing women, children under five years
old
and elderly people) affected by the drought, with a complementary food
ration of
rice, beans and vegetable oil. The total cost of this operation will be
US$3,725,522.
Distribution of food to beneficiaries has not begun yet. A shipment of
1,141.80 tons of rice
from Montevideo is expected to arrive to Havana, with ETA August 29."
Emergency Report n. 34 19 August 2005
http://www.wfp.org/english/?n=34&k=649
http://iys.cidi.org/humanitarian/wfp/05b/ixl5.html

As usual Canadian Stalinist Dan Christensen resorts to lies, insults and
innuendo when he has no facts to post.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 19:57:23 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 30, 2:20 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
We are STILL waiting for your proof that this aid amounts to more than
a few cents per person per YEAR.
It amounts to the diffrence between hunger and being fed comrade Dan.
It amounts to the difference between diesease and decent life comrade Danj.
[snip]

So, you STILL have no proof that it amounts to more than a few cents
per person per year. Thought so.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
While Castro is handing out light bulbs to Jamaicans that have (older) light
bulbs and food, people in Cuba need food and depend on (underfunded) WFP
programs.
[snip]
It seems not even your mafia pals have bought into this wacky little
conspiracy theory
(snip)
No conspiracy theory comrade Dan.
A fact reported in the press and snipped by desperate Dan.
[snip]

Almost a year later, no one but you, not even your mafia pals in
Miami, are suggesting that Cubans went hungry to pay for these light
bulbs. But you always were a bit of a loose cannon weren't you, Mr.
Lobbyist? (Hee, hee, hee!)
Post by PL
These bulbs which, ironically, are gifts from Cuba, manufactured in
China by a U.S. company, have an estimated retail value of over $2
billion.http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060527/cleisure/cleisure1.html
[snip]

These bulbs were not being sold, they were being given away. Retail
value is no indication of actual cost. Again, we are STILL waiting for
your proof that these light bulbs, manufactured in China and also
distributed cost-free to Cuban households, cost the government
anything all.

Until you can produce the required evidence to support any of your
outrageous claims above, do not expect a reply from me on these
matters.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 20:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Once the same crap is enough Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen.
Don't flood newsgroups.
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 20:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Once the same crap is enough Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen.
Poor pathetic lobbyist...
Post by PL
Don't flood newsgroups.
Just having some transmission problems today, but thanks again for
confirming just how utterly desperate you are by trying to make
anything of it. I guess this is what you are reduced to when the truth
is so seldom of any use to you.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 20:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Once the same crap is enough Candian Stalinist Dan Christensen.
Poor pathetic lobbyist...
That lie has been expose over and over again.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Don't flood newsgroups.
Just having some transmission problems today,
(snip)

as you "have" so very often, no?
Wasn't it you that claimed he was being "blocked" by shadowy "owners" of
SCC in the past until you had to admit that it was yoiu screwing up again?
I can of course quote you.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-30 20:00:53 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 30, 2:20 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Quote me
[snip]

You would like us to forget all about your little indiscretion here
some years ago -- you actually boasting about your lobbying exploits,
the schmoozing, the golf games, etc. Too bad! It is now a matter of
public record. In addition to your own words here, we have your
prodigious production stats here and at other forums.

For all the quotes and details, see the thread "Top Official: US Wants
Cuba 'Liberation'" where our Mr. Lobbyist here obligingly runs through
almost his entire repertoire of desperate lies, distortions and
evasions, including those here, each debunked by yours truly at:

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_frm/thread/1ae3dea90e537555/da566b8afe2111a2?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#da566b8afe2111a2

Really, isn't it time for you to come clean on this matter, Mr.
Lobbyist? Your continued denials only serve to undermine what little
credibility you have left. Until you can do so, and if you are simply
going to keep repeating your tired old lies and evasions, do not
expect a reply from me on this matter.
Post by PL
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
[snip]

That was 4 years ago. As AI reiterated only two months ago:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population. According to UNICEF, the
availability of medicines and basic medical materials has decreased in
Cuba as a consequence of the US embargo against the island." (AI
website)

Also see featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at
my website.

Mr. Lobbyist would actually have you believe that AI would support
these cruel sanctions of his for as long as it takes for certain of
his "preconditions" to be met. Yes, he is that desperate, that stupid
and that cruel! Whatever it takes, right, Mr. Lobbyist?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-30 20:04:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Quote me
[snip]
You would like us to forget all about your little indiscretion here
(snip)
There is no "indescretion" comrade Dan Christensen and your constant
inablility to post
direct quotes with links shows that you know you are lying Mr. Cyber-Liar
and Cyber-Stalker.
Post by Dan Christensen
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_frm/thread/1ae3dea90e537555/da566b8afe2111a2?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#da566b8afe2111a2
Nothing there comrade Dan. No links and quotes. Just you repeating your
lies.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist
propagandist of SCC.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
[snip]
"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted,
(snip)

But NOWHERE and NEVER Amnsety calle for an immediate and unconditional end
to the trade sanctions comrade Dan.
that is your lie.
A lie you admit to every time you fail to post any corroboration.

PL
Continúe leyendo en narkive:
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