Discussion:
Medical school is propaganda tool
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
Barry Schier
2007-03-17 05:36:11 UTC
Permalink
(My reply starts a few paragraphs below this background exchange.)
Again, where are all the US (and European) doctors in the slums and isolated rural communities?
[PL] > >> >> MSF is everywhere.
(1) MSF (i.e., Medicins Sans Frontiers = Doctors Without Borders) is a
non-governmental organization made up of those physicians
and allied health workers donating their time and resources and also
using;resources provided to that organization as the product
of the contributions of participants and charitable / humanitarian
organizations sympathetic to its work.
(1.1) Guess how many pennies and minutes of that organization's
budget, efforts, etc. come from "Uncle Sam"!
(1.2) Not only that, the aid which Pastors for Peace has sent to Cuba
as part of its "U.S.-Cuba Friendshipments" has been blocked
by the U.S. government (although pressure has forced Washington to
relent and finally allow almost all of the contents to leave the
U.S.A. and cross into Mexico, the country where unionized Mexican
longshore workers volunteer their own time (again, without
government assistance or compensation) load the Cuba-bound aid onto
ship/s at Tampico (i.e., a major Mexican port).

(2) The almost 5-decade-old law which is used by the United States
government as the basis for its embargo against Cuba
(which each year is condemned by votes in the United Nations General
Assembly that have continually increased, starting with a
57-to-4 vote 15 years ago to 183-to-4 in the most recent vote)
ostensibly exempts food and medicine (in order to comply with
international law).

(2.1) Yet, durng the 6th U.S. Cuba Friendshipment (in which I
participated), federal agents literally entered a church in
the San Diego suburb of Lemon Grove to confiscate computers which were
destined for a (United Nations sponsored) medical
information network in Cuba. The United States government released
those computers only after it decided that the the politcal
price that it would have to pay would be too great in the context of
its acts / policy becoming publicized, limited hunger strike by
several Pastors for Peace members (including its director, Rev.
Lucious Walker) concurrent with much national and international
pressure.

(3) The Cuban GOVERNMENT, by contrast, supplies most of both the
personnel (e.g., about 25,000 doctors) and material which is
used to provide medical services AT NO CHARGE `in the slums and
isolated rural communities' of more than 5 dozen
"Third World" countries, especially Venezuela.
[snip (... and "snip" and "snip")]
[t]here have [been] 40,000 Cuban doctors serving abroad (your
recent posting). MSF has at most 28,000 field staff (see
Loading Image...)
and it is just one of the many European NGO', no?
Lots of other active.
Examples?
http://www.google.be/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%...
And how many people do they have in the field?
Look it up.
And they TRULY work for free. Not like the doctors Castro rents out to lots of countries.
(4) The cynicism and dishonesty of opponents of the Cuban Revolution
(including especially PL, who rhetorically asks,
"... it actually uses the doctors as money earners in a international
rental industry, no?") knows no bounds.
(4.1) The twisted logic of opponents of the Cuban Revolution and
Venezuela's Bolivarian process notwithstanding,
receiving of compensation for / while providing FREE medical services,
materials, and education to masses of people is NOT
"renting out" of one's personnel and/or material.
(4.2) It is under a CAPITALIST medical system that health care is
considered a commodity existing for the opportunity for a
relative few to make a profit. Thus, Cuba provides health care at no
cost to all its citizens, and Venezuela is making strides in
that direction, while 40 to 47 million Americans (plus an unknown
gigantic number of immigrants living in the USA prevented from
becoming legal residents / citizens by xenophobic laws and policies)
have continued to lack any health insurance with the
remainder mostly paying exorbitant money insurance fees and "co-
payments" to receive health care.

(5) The opponents of the Cuban Revolution (and of Venezuelan President
Hugo Chavez' cooperation and solidarity with Cuba)
stretch logic by claiming that the fact that Venezuela provides
compensation / revenue / payments makes Cuba's sending of literally
thosands of
doctors (plus a large number of sports trainers, literacy teachers,
and others) to that country "proves" Cuba's solidarity a mercenary
effort. Not once do they attempt to refute what matters: THE PEOPLE
WHO RECEIVE THE SERVICES of Cuban doctors, etc.,
receive those services AT NO CHARGE to them.
(5.1) The fact that the source of revenue for providing such services
FOR FREE is Venezuelan government / oil funds should be
seen as proof that, IN CONTRAST TO THE U.S. government -- which spends
an increasing share (now approaching half)
of its giant budget on military and wars (i.e., 47% of the military
spending OF THE ENTIRE PLANET) as it continually cuts back on
social programs and benefits -- the Venezuelan government (whose
President is Hugo Chavez) spends a huge portion of its budget
and other revenues on providing services to its people, especially the
poor and/or those with the greatest needs.

-- Barry Schier
[snip]
Unlike the EU and the US, Cuba is not a rich country
It [Cuba] gets major subsidies from Venezuela for the international acts of
propaganda you mean.
and cannot afford
to fully fund all of its aid projects.
A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209...
"According to a Cuban economist, overall earnings from the export of
medical, teaching and other professional services could reach $750m (?586m,
£404m) this year, most of it from Venezuela."
"Castro's doctors give Chávez shot in arm", Financial Times, 2/9/05.http://www.americas.org/item_17883
"I think medical services will have replaced tourism as our most important
source of revenue in 2005," said Garcia, who directs the Cuban Economy Study
Center at Havana University.
Source :"Cuba's medical services becoming major moneymaker", South Florida
Sun Sentinel, Dec.18 2005.
See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/19469
See:http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm#Medical_doctors:_th...http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Again, rich countries, like
South Africa and Venezuela, that can afford to pay do so. Those that
can't afford to pay get free medical care for their people.
[See original message for the (long) remainder of the original
message]
PL
2007-03-17 09:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Schier
(My reply starts a few paragraphs below this background exchange.)
Again, where are all the US (and European) doctors in the slums and
isolated rural communities?
[PL] > >> >> MSF is everywhere.
Post by Barry Schier
(1) MSF (i.e., Medicins Sans Frontiers = Doctors Without Borders) is a
non-governmental organization
(snip)

Yep.
A type of organization Castro does nearly never allow in, one that can't be
started in Cuba (truly NGO) and one that Castro pushes out of Cuba when he
feels he doesn't need them any more.
The Cuban anti-aids program was set up MSF which was then forced out of
Cuba:

"But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the organization
to continue running other projects independently and effectively, prompting
the decision to withdraw"
From the MSF 2000 International Activity Report


International staff: 5


In late 1999, Médecins Sans Frontières made the difficult decision to
discontinue its work in Cuba. Some MSF programs in Cuba were
successfully completed and handed over to the the Ministry of Health.
But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the
organization to continue running other projects independently and
effectively, prompting the decision to withdraw. MSF closed its last
mission in Cuba in April 2000.


While on the island, MSF focused on STD/AIDS and on water and
sanitation, areas where it was able to bring added value to a health
system that already had well-trained medical professionals but lacked
financial resources.


Raising awareness of STD/AIDS


STD/AIDS prevention programs in Havana and Santiago de Cuba targeted
young people and vulnerable groups. MSF carried out awareness
campaigns, trained local health workers and encouraged condom use.


In early 2000, MSF teams and community health workers travelled
through Havana and the provincial capitals for an outreach campaign
called "Carrito por la vida" (Trailer for Life). Riding in a brightly
painted Dutch caravan, teams worked enthusiastically day and night
distributing information and condoms to high risk people, raising
awareness of HIV/AIDS and STDs and promoting universal precautions.
The project was carried out in conjunction with the Ministry of
Health.


Although the STD/AIDS project in Santiago de Cuba was praised by the
Minister of Health and its extension to four other provinces
requested, the extension proved impossible due to unacceptable
conditions posed by the Cuban authorities. The Santiago project is
continuing with the Cuban team which had been working with MSF since
1997.

http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?objectid=6589C209-DC2C-11D4-B2010060084A6370&component=toolkit.article&method=full_html
Post by Barry Schier
(1.1) Guess how many pennies and minutes of that organization's budget,
efforts, etc. come from "Uncle Sam"!
(snip)

You tell us.
A fact is that ALL pennies and personnel come from "capitalist" countries
and that this ONE organization, by your Stalinist friend's admission Provide
MORE FREE medical services than Cuba.
Post by Barry Schier
(3) The Cuban GOVERNMENT, by contrast, supplies most of both the personnel
(e.g., about 25,000 doctors) and material which is
used to provide medical services AT NO CHARGE `
A lie.
Chavez pays Cuba in cash and oil.

A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209.pdf


Total:
"According to a Cuban economist, overall earnings from the export of
medical, teaching and other professional services could reach $750m (?586m,
£404m) this year, most of it from Venezuela."
"Castro's doctors give Chávez shot in arm", Financial Times, 2/9/05.
http://www.americas.org/item_17883

"I think medical services will have replaced tourism as our most important
source of revenue in 2005," said Garcia, who directs the Cuban Economy Study
Center at Havana University.

Source :"Cuba's medical services becoming major moneymaker", South Florida
Sun Sentinel, Dec.18 2005.

See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/19469

See:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm#Medical_doctors:_the_special_case._
http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.

As i said: watch it.
You could start calling comrade Chavez a liar comrade Dan.

Now, in a supplementary agreement to the oil deal, Venezuela will be paid
not in cash but in human beings -- as in medieval times. Along with doctors,
Cuba will send up to 3,000 physical education teachers and sports coaches to
pay for the oil.
http://www.uexpress.com/georgieannegeyer/?uc_full_date=20001103

Venezuela struggles with doctor shortage

Venezuela is currently dependent on the Cuban assistance, which the
Chávez government originally agreed to pay for with oil exports to
Havana. But in November, two opposition oil experts presented documents
they said showed that Cuba had been paid a total of $340 million last
year for ''goods and services'' supplied under the terms of the oil
agreement. The Chávez government denied any such payments were made.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28836

The medical services are financed by a broad barter agreement between
the two countries. Cuba provides fully equipped medical teams in
Venezuela, with as many as 25,000 doctors, dentists and nurses. In
return, Venezuela sends 93,000 barrels a day of refined petroleum
products, valued at almost $2-billion a year.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/12/Worldandnation/Docs_for_oil_trade_sh.shtml

Venezuela will provide 53,000 barrels of oil a day -- at current prices,
worth more than $500 million a year. Cuba will pay for part of the
oil in cash and up to one-quarter of it under preferential financing terms,
depending on the price of a barrel, Venezuelan Energy Minister Ali Rodriguez
said.
Cuba will also receive an unspecified amount in exchange for treating
Venezuelan medical patients; supplying doctors, medical equipment and aid in
producing medicines; and providing expertise in agricultural, tourism,
sports, computer technology and scientific research.
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/venezuela/oil-deal.htm

PL
Post by Barry Schier
[snip (... and "snip" and "snip")]
[t]here have [been] 40,000 Cuban doctors serving abroad (your
recent posting). MSF has at most 28,000 field staff (see
http://www.msf.org/source/actrep/2006/stats/HR.jpg)
and it is just one of the many European NGO', no?
Lots of other active.
Examples?
http://www.google.be/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%...
And how many people do they have in the field?
Look it up.
And they TRULY work for free. Not like the doctors Castro rents out to
lots of countries.
(4) The cynicism and dishonesty of opponents of the Cuban Revolution
(including especially PL, who rhetorically asks,
"... it actually uses the doctors as money earners in a international
rental industry, no?") knows no bounds.
(4.1) The twisted logic of opponents of the Cuban Revolution and
Venezuela's Bolivarian process notwithstanding,
receiving of compensation for / while providing FREE medical services,
materials, and education to masses of people is NOT
"renting out" of one's personnel and/or material.
(4.2) It is under a CAPITALIST medical system that health care is
considered a commodity existing for the opportunity for a
relative few to make a profit. Thus, Cuba provides health care at no
cost to all its citizens, and Venezuela is making strides in
that direction, while 40 to 47 million Americans (plus an unknown
gigantic number of immigrants living in the USA prevented from
becoming legal residents / citizens by xenophobic laws and policies)
have continued to lack any health insurance with the
remainder mostly paying exorbitant money insurance fees and "co-
payments" to receive health care.

(5) The opponents of the Cuban Revolution (and of Venezuelan President
Hugo Chavez' cooperation and solidarity with Cuba)
stretch logic by claiming that the fact that Venezuela provides
compensation / revenue / payments makes Cuba's sending of literally
thosands of
doctors (plus a large number of sports trainers, literacy teachers,
and others) to that country "proves" Cuba's solidarity a mercenary
effort. Not once do they attempt to refute what matters: THE PEOPLE
WHO RECEIVE THE SERVICES of Cuban doctors, etc.,
receive those services AT NO CHARGE to them.
(5.1) The fact that the source of revenue for providing such services
FOR FREE is Venezuelan government / oil funds should be
seen as proof that, IN CONTRAST TO THE U.S. government -- which spends
an increasing share (now approaching half)
of its giant budget on military and wars (i.e., 47% of the military
spending OF THE ENTIRE PLANET) as it continually cuts back on
social programs and benefits -- the Venezuelan government (whose
President is Hugo Chavez) spends a huge portion of its budget
and other revenues on providing services to its people, especially the
poor and/or those with the greatest needs.

-- Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
[snip]
Unlike the EU and the US, Cuba is not a rich country
It [Cuba] gets major subsidies from Venezuela for the international acts of
propaganda you mean.
and cannot afford
to fully fund all of its aid projects.
A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209...
"According to a Cuban economist, overall earnings from the export of
medical, teaching and other professional services could reach $750m (?586m,
£404m) this year, most of it from Venezuela."
"Castro's doctors give Chávez shot in arm", Financial Times,
2/9/05.http://www.americas.org/item_17883
"I think medical services will have replaced tourism as our most important
source of revenue in 2005," said Garcia, who directs the Cuban Economy Study
Center at Havana University.
Source :"Cuba's medical services becoming major moneymaker", South Florida
Sun Sentinel, Dec.18 2005.
See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/19469
See:http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm#Medical_doctors:_th...http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Again, rich countries, like
South Africa and Venezuela, that can afford to pay do so. Those that
can't afford to pay get free medical care for their people.
[See original message for the (long) remainder of the original
message]
Observador
2007-03-17 16:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy??? The petrolium it receives is FREE from his pal
hugito, the goods being recieved from the US ara FREE, the longshore
workers in Mexico work for FREE....it goes to show the basket case in
which, this pathetic mummy, fidelito, has left his country in. Is it
any wonder that here are two clases of cubans, those who have left
cuba, and those who want to leave cuba.
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
(My reply starts a few paragraphs below this background exchange.)
Again, where are all the US (and European) doctors in the slums and
isolated rural communities?
[PL] > >> >> MSF is everywhere.
Post by Barry Schier
(1) MSF (i.e., Medicins Sans Frontiers = Doctors Without Borders) is a
non-governmental organization
(snip)
Yep.
A type of organization Castro does nearly never allow in, one that can't be
started in Cuba (truly NGO) and one that Castro pushes out of Cuba when he
feels he doesn't need them any more.
The Cuban anti-aids program was set up MSF which was then forced out of
"But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the organization
to continue running other projects independently and effectively, prompting
the decision to withdraw"
From the MSF 2000 International Activity Report
International staff: 5
In late 1999, Médecins Sans Frontières made the difficult decision to
discontinue its work in Cuba. Some MSF programs in Cuba were
successfully completed and handed over to the the Ministry of Health.
But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the
organization to continue running other projects independently and
effectively, prompting the decision to withdraw. MSF closed its last
mission in Cuba in April 2000.
While on the island, MSF focused on STD/AIDS and on water and
sanitation, areas where it was able to bring added value to a health
system that already had well-trained medical professionals but lacked
financial resources.
Raising awareness of STD/AIDS
STD/AIDS prevention programs in Havana and Santiago de Cuba targeted
young people and vulnerable groups. MSF carried out awareness
campaigns, trained local health workers and encouraged condom use.
In early 2000, MSF teams and community health workers travelled
through Havana and the provincial capitals for an outreach campaign
called "Carrito por la vida" (Trailer for Life). Riding in a brightly
painted Dutch caravan, teams worked enthusiastically day and night
distributing information and condoms to high risk people, raising
awareness of HIV/AIDS and STDs and promoting universal precautions.
The project was carried out in conjunction with the Ministry of
Health.
Although the STD/AIDS project in Santiago de Cuba was praised by the
Minister of Health and its extension to four other provinces
requested, the extension proved impossible due to unacceptable
conditions posed by the Cuban authorities. The Santiago project is
continuing with the Cuban team which had been working with MSF since
1997.
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?objectid=6589C209-DC2C-11D4-B2010060084A6370&component=toolkit.article&method=full_html
Post by Barry Schier
(1.1) Guess how many pennies and minutes of that organization's budget,
efforts, etc. come from "Uncle Sam"!
(snip)
You tell us.
A fact is that ALL pennies and personnel come from "capitalist" countries
and that this ONE organization, by your Stalinist friend's admission Provide
MORE FREE medical services than Cuba.
Post by Barry Schier
(3) The Cuban GOVERNMENT, by contrast, supplies most of both the personnel
(e.g., about 25,000 doctors) and material which is
used to provide medical services AT NO CHARGE `
A lie.
Chavez pays Cuba in cash and oil.
A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209.pdf
"According to a Cuban economist, overall earnings from the export of
medical, teaching and other professional services could reach $750m (?586m,
£404m) this year, most of it from Venezuela."
"Castro's doctors give Chávez shot in arm", Financial Times, 2/9/05.
http://www.americas.org/item_17883
"I think medical services will have replaced tourism as our most important
source of revenue in 2005," said Garcia, who directs the Cuban Economy Study
Center at Havana University.
Source :"Cuba's medical services becoming major moneymaker", South Florida
Sun Sentinel, Dec.18 2005.
See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/19469
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm#Medical_doctors:_the_special_case._
http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
As i said: watch it.
You could start calling comrade Chavez a liar comrade Dan.
Now, in a supplementary agreement to the oil deal, Venezuela will be paid
not in cash but in human beings -- as in medieval times. Along with doctors,
Cuba will send up to 3,000 physical education teachers and sports coaches to
pay for the oil.
http://www.uexpress.com/georgieannegeyer/?uc_full_date=20001103
Venezuela struggles with doctor shortage
Venezuela is currently dependent on the Cuban assistance, which the
Chávez government originally agreed to pay for with oil exports to
Havana. But in November, two opposition oil experts presented documents
they said showed that Cuba had been paid a total of $340 million last
year for ''goods and services'' supplied under the terms of the oil
agreement. The Chávez government denied any such payments were made.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28836
The medical services are financed by a broad barter agreement between
the two countries. Cuba provides fully equipped medical teams in
Venezuela, with as many as 25,000 doctors, dentists and nurses. In
return, Venezuela sends 93,000 barrels a day of refined petroleum
products, valued at almost $2-billion a year.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/12/Worldandnation/Docs_for_oil_trade_sh.shtml
Venezuela will provide 53,000 barrels of oil a day -- at current prices,
worth more than $500 million a year. Cuba will pay for part of the
oil in cash and up to one-quarter of it under preferential financing terms,
depending on the price of a barrel, Venezuelan Energy Minister Ali Rodriguez
said.
Cuba will also receive an unspecified amount in exchange for treating
Venezuelan medical patients; supplying doctors, medical equipment and aid in
producing medicines; and providing expertise in agricultural, tourism,
sports, computer technology and scientific research.
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/venezuela/oil-deal.htm
PL
Post by Barry Schier
[snip (... and "snip" and "snip")]
[t]here have [been] 40,000 Cuban doctors serving abroad (your
recent posting). MSF has at most 28,000 field staff (see
http://www.msf.org/source/actrep/2006/stats/HR.jpg)
and it is just one of the many European NGO', no?
Lots of other active.
Examples?
http://www.google.be/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%...
And how many people do they have in the field?
Look it up.
And they TRULY work for free. Not like the doctors Castro rents out to
lots of countries.
(4) The cynicism and dishonesty of opponents of the Cuban Revolution
(including especially PL, who rhetorically asks,
"... it actually uses the doctors as money earners in a international
rental industry, no?") knows no bounds.
(4.1) The twisted logic of opponents of the Cuban Revolution and
Venezuela's Bolivarian process notwithstanding,
receiving of compensation for / while providing FREE medical services,
materials, and education to masses of people is NOT
"renting out" of one's personnel and/or material.
(4.2) It is under a CAPITALIST medical system that health care is
considered a commodity existing for the opportunity for a
relative few to make a profit. Thus, Cuba provides health care at no
cost to all its citizens, and Venezuela is making strides in
that direction, while 40 to 47 million Americans (plus an unknown
gigantic number of immigrants living in the USA prevented from
becoming legal residents / citizens by xenophobic laws and policies)
have continued to lack any health insurance with the
remainder mostly paying exorbitant money insurance fees and "co-
payments" to receive health care.
(5) The opponents of the Cuban Revolution (and of Venezuelan President
Hugo Chavez' cooperation and solidarity with Cuba)
stretch logic by claiming that the fact that Venezuela provides
compensation / revenue / payments makes Cuba's sending of literally
thosands of
doctors (plus a large number of sports trainers, literacy teachers,
and others) to that country "proves" Cuba's solidarity a mercenary
effort. Not once do they attempt to refute what matters: THE PEOPLE
WHO RECEIVE THE SERVICES of Cuban doctors, etc.,
receive those services AT NO CHARGE to them.
(5.1) The fact that the source of revenue for providing such services
FOR FREE is Venezuelan government / oil funds should be
seen as proof that, IN CONTRAST TO THE U.S. government -- which spends
an increasing share (now approaching half)
of its giant budget on military and wars (i.e., 47% of the military
spending OF THE ENTIRE PLANET) as it continually cuts back on
social programs and benefits -- the Venezuelan government (whose
President is Hugo Chavez) spends a huge portion of its budget
and other revenues on providing services to its people, especially the
poor and/or those with the greatest needs.
-- Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
[snip]
Unlike the EU and the US, Cuba is not a rich country
It [Cuba] gets major subsidies from Venezuela for the international acts of
propaganda you mean.
and cannot afford
to fully fund all of its aid projects.
A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209...
"According to a Cuban economist, overall earnings from the export of
medical, teaching and other professional services could reach $750m (?586m,
£404m) this year, most of it from Venezuela."
"Castro's doctors give Chávez shot in arm", Financial Times,
2/9/05.http://www.americas.org/item_17883
"I think medical services will have replaced tourism as our most important
source of revenue in 2005," said Garcia, who directs the Cuban Economy Study
Center at Havana University.
Source :"Cuba's medical services becoming major moneymaker", South Florida
Sun Sentinel, Dec.18 2005.
See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/19469
See:http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm#Medical_doctors:_th...http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Again, rich countries, like
South Africa and Venezuela, that can afford to pay do so. Those that
can't afford to pay get free medical care for their people.
[See original message for the (long) remainder of the original
message]
Dan Christensen
2007-03-18 04:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim -- a favourite tactic of the far
right. As even the UN Human Rights Commission was forced to concede in
reports critical of Cuba, however:

"It is also impossible to ignore the disastrous and lasting economic
and social effects of the [US] embargo imposed on the Cuban population
over 40 years ago." (SCC archives)

In spite of the best efforts of all you embargo-Nazis, however, Cuba
continues to maintain the best health care and education system in
Latin America, and is even able to send aid to various capitalist
regimes in the region and around the world. Their infant mortality
rate -- the single most reliable indicator of over all public health
-- surpassed that of the US years ago. Cuba's rate is the second
lowest in the Americas -- second only to Canada. No mean feat. Without
these genocidal sanctions of yours to hold them back, Cuba may well
have been a world leader in these areas by now. Your worst nightmare,
right, obsi?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
Barry Schier
2007-03-18 06:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
(My reply starts a few paragraphs below this background exchange.)
Again, where are all the US (and European) doctors in the slums and
isolated rural communities?
[PL] > >> >> MSF is everywhere.
Post by Barry Schier
(1) MSF (i.e., Médecins Sans Frontières [apologies for my misspelling in original message] = Doctors Without Borders) is a
non-governmental organization
(snip)
Yep.
A type of organization Castro does nearly never allow in,
In order to claim that an organization which had been very publicly
operating in a country was (allegedly) "kicked out",
one cannot deny that it was never "allow[ed] in". But, with the
above, let not logic interfere with one's mission of atacking the
Cuban Revolution! Although he is most likely to dislike the early Bob
Dylan's biting lyrical comments re the gusanos, the John Birch
Society,
and other reactionaries (e.g., "... Who came here from Cuba's door /
Where boxing ain't allowed no more. / I hit him, yes, it's true, /
But that's what I am paid to do./ Don't say 'murder,' don't say
'kill.' / ...") , PL certainly takes that Dylan lyric, "You can have
you cake and eat it too" to heart when he raises points.

(Footnote: The cited Dylan lyrics were merely allegorical, rather than
literal, since in reality Cuba not only didn't abolish boxing,
but has trained and produced more than its share of Olympic boxing
champions, including Teofilo Stevenson, a boxer who has not
only spoken out in defense of the Revolution, but has turned down
multimillion dollar offers to fight in the U.S.A.) However, in post-
Revolutionary Cuba, there have been no boxing fatalities, whether naed
"Davey Moore" or anyone else, because Cuba treats sports as part of
its people's entitlement to entertainment and culture, instead of a
commodity for profit, much to the chagrin of those Cubans with 95-mph
fastballs and aspirations of becoming multimillionaires.)
Post by Barry Schier
one that can't be started in Cuba (truly NGO) and one that Castro pushes out of Cuba when he
feels he doesn't need them any more.
Yet, in the very next paragraph PL contradicts his own claim, which
states NOT that Cuba "kicked out" MSF and/or its doctors, but rather
that group's Board of Directors felt that the regulations and
Post by Barry Schier
"But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the organization
to continue running other projects independently and effectively, prompting
the decision to withdraw"
From the MSF 2000 International Activity Report
International staff: 5
In late 1999, Médecins Sans Frontières made the difficult decision to
discontinue its work in Cuba. Some MSF programs in Cuba were
successfully completed and handed over to the the Ministry of Health.
But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the
organization to continue running other projects independently and
effectively, prompting the decision to withdraw. MSF closed its last
mission in Cuba in April 2000.
While on the island, MSF focused on STD/AIDS and on water and
sanitation, areas where it was able to bring added value to a health
system that already had well-trained medical professionals but lacked
financial resources.
Raising awareness of STD/AIDS
STD/AIDS prevention programs in Havana and Santiago de Cuba targeted
young people and vulnerable groups. MSF carried out awareness
campaigns, trained local health workers and encouraged condom use.
While I was in Havana in 1997 for the 14th International Festival of
Youth and Students, I was then surprised that the T-shirts worn there
by
members of the UJC (Union of Young Communists, i.e., youth group
affiliated with the Communist Party of Cuba,) did not
contain "political slogans", but had on them a caricature of a condom
and a message using its use. I still do not know
whether that idea orginated with the Cubans or with MSF (or both of
them); I do know that it contradicts the claim that the
Cubans did not cooperate with MSF and its goals, especially in
"Raising awareness of STD/AIDS" and its prevention, especially if
"The Cuban anti-AIDS program was set up [by] MSF."
Post by Barry Schier
In early 2000, MSF teams and community health workers travelled
through Havana and the provincial capitals for an outreach campaign
called "Carrito por la vida" (Trailer for Life). Riding in a brightly
painted Dutch caravan, teams worked enthusiastically day and night
distributing information and condoms to high risk people, raising
awareness of HIV/AIDS and STDs and promoting universal precautions.
The project was carried out in conjunction with the Ministry of Health.
Although the STD/AIDS project in Santiago de Cuba was praised by the
Minister of Health and its extension to four other provinces
requested, the extension proved impossible due to unacceptable
conditions posed by the Cuban authorities. The Santiago project is
continuing with the Cuban team which had been working with MSF since
1997.
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?objectid=6589C209-DC2C...
PL (with dishonesty as prominent as hatred for the Cuban Revolution)
is oblivious to the fact that his citeation rebuts his claim,
" The Cuban anti-AIDS program was set up [by] which was then forced
out of Cuba:" The program not only wasn't "kicked of Cuba", but
but the "project is continuing with the Cuban team which had been
working with MSF since 1997" (although MSF itself had
withdrawn its staff from Cuba because of disagreements with what it
felt / feels were "unacceptable condtions posed by the Cuban
authorities" ).
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
(1.1) Guess how many pennies and minutes of that organization's budget,
efforts, etc. come from "Uncle Sam"!
(snip)
You tell us.
A fact is that ALL pennies and personnel come from "capitalist" countries
and that this ONE organization, by your Stalinist friend's admission Provide
MORE FREE medical services than Cuba.
Post by Barry Schier
(3) The Cuban GOVERNMENT, by contrast, supplies most of both the personnel
(e.g., about 25,000 doctors) and material which is
used to provide medical services AT NO CHARGE `
A lie.
Chavez pays Cuba in cash and oil.
PL brings up a red herring when he states that the revenue for those
medical services (including persoonel and material) comes from
payments made by Venezuela's President "in cash and oil"

It is that medical services are provided to Venezuelans by the Cubans
AT NO CHARGE TO THE RECIPIENTS OF THOSE
SERVICES that matters.

Whether Cuban "medical, teaching and other professional services"
were / are paid for through oil revenue, cash, "foreign exchange," or
provided by the good fairy (and how much the Cubans receive in
exchange for those services) does not affect the FACT that the
Venezuelans needing and RECEIVING THOSE SERVICES GET THEM AT NO CHARGE
to them, i.e., FOR FREE, paying nada, zilch, zip for such services
which had previously been only available to those (i.e., Venezuela's
middle and upper classes) who could afford to pay for them.
.
Ditto for the serves provided to Venezuelans AT NO CHARGE by "3,000
physical education teachers and sports coaches" Cubans
Post by Barry Schier
A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209...
Post by Barry Schier
[snip (... and "snip" and "snip") re compensation received by Cuba from VEnezuela]
[t]here have [been] 40,000 Cuban doctors serving abroad (your
recent posting). MSF has at most 28,000 field staff (see
http://www.msf.org/source/actrep/2006/stats/HR.jpg)
(4) The cynicism and dishonesty of opponents of the Cuban Revolution
(including especially PL, who rhetorically asks,
"... it actually uses the doctors as money earners in a international
rental industry, no?") knows no bounds.
(4.1) The twisted logic of opponents of the Cuban Revolution and
Venezuela's Bolivarian process notwithstanding,
receiving of compensation for / while providing FREE medical services,
materials, and education to masses of people is NOT
"renting out" of one's personnel and/or material.
(4.2) It is under a CAPITALIST medical system that health care is
considered a commodity existing for the opportunity for a
relative few to make a profit. Thus, Cuba provides health care at no
cost to all its citizens, and Venezuela is making strides in
that direction, while 40 to 47 million Americans (plus an unknown
gigantic number of immigrants living in the USA prevented from
becoming legal residents / citizens by xenophobic laws and policies)
have continued to lack any health insurance with the
remainder mostly paying exorbitant money insurance fees and "co-
payments" to receive health care.
(5) The opponents of the Cuban Revolution (and of Venezuelan President
Hugo Chavez' cooperation and solidarity with Cuba)
stretch logic by claiming that the fact that Venezuela provides
compensation / revenue / payments makes Cuba's sending of literally
thosands of
doctors (plus a large number of sports trainers, literacy teachers,
and others) to that country "proves" Cuba's solidarity a mercenary
effort. Not once do they attempt to refute what matters: THE PEOPLE
WHO RECEIVE THE SERVICES of Cuban doctors, etc.,
receive those services AT NO CHARGE to them.
(5.1) The fact that the source of revenue for providing such services
FOR FREE is Venezuelan government / oil funds should be
seen as proof that, IN CONTRAST TO THE U.S. government -- which spends
an increasing share (now approaching half)
of its giant budget on military and wars (i.e., 47% of the military
spending OF THE ENTIRE PLANET) as it continually cuts back on
social programs and benefits -- the Venezuelan government (whose
President is Hugo Chavez) spends a huge portion of its budget
and other revenues on providing services to its people, especially the
poor and/or those with the greatest needs.
-- Barry Schier
PL
2007-03-18 19:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
(My reply starts a few paragraphs below this background exchange.)
Again, where are all the US (and European) doctors in the slums and
isolated rural communities?
[PL] > >> >> MSF is everywhere.
Post by Barry Schier
(1) MSF (i.e., Médecins Sans Frontières [apologies for my misspelling
in original message] = Doctors Without Borders) is a
non-governmental organization
(snip)
Yep.
A type of organization Castro does nearly never allow in,
In order to claim that an organization which had been very publicly
operating in a country was (allegedly) "kicked out",
Post by Barry Schier
one cannot deny that it was never "allow[ed] in".
(snip)

Yep and when they created the program and got in the way of propaganda and
control they were kicked out.
When MSF went in to Cuba they had to bring in millions of condoms to fight
aids.
"Two Dutch women have led an AIDS-prevention project in Havana since 1996.
It distributes six million condoms a year."
http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/pax3.html
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
one that can't be started in Cuba (truly NGO) and one that Castro pushes
out of Cuba when he
feels he doesn't need them any more.
Yet, in the very next paragraph PL contradicts his own claim, which
states NOT that Cuba "kicked out" MSF and/or its doctors, but rather
that group's Board of Directors felt that the regulations and
which means they were sabotaged and pestered until they left.
Exactly the same thing Mr. Castro apologist.
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
"But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the
organization
to continue running other projects independently and effectively, prompting
the decision to withdraw"
From the MSF 2000 International Activity Report
International staff: 5
In late 1999, Médecins Sans Frontières made the difficult decision to
discontinue its work in Cuba. Some MSF programs in Cuba were
successfully completed and handed over to the the Ministry of Health.
But excessive administrative control by Cuban authorities and related
problems with local supply channels made it difficult for the
organization to continue running other projects independently and
effectively, prompting the decision to withdraw. MSF closed its last
mission in Cuba in April 2000.
While on the island, MSF focused on STD/AIDS and on water and
sanitation, areas where it was able to bring added value to a health
system that already had well-trained medical professionals but lacked
financial resources.
Raising awareness of STD/AIDS
STD/AIDS prevention programs in Havana and Santiago de Cuba targeted
young people and vulnerable groups. MSF carried out awareness
campaigns, trained local health workers and encouraged condom use.
While I was in Havana in 1997 for the 14th International Festival of
Youth and Students, I was then surprised that the T-shirts worn there by
(snip)

Provided by MSF I guess.
Part of their campaign.
They did the work, Castro wants the credit.
Post by Barry Schier
I do know that it contradicts the claim that the
Cubans did not cooperate with MSF and its goals,
(snip)

it shows they were allowed in as long as the regime felt they needed them.
When the regime wanted to claim the achievements as "their own" MSF had to
"disappear" you mean;
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
In early 2000, MSF teams and community health workers travelled
through Havana and the provincial capitals for an outreach campaign
called "Carrito por la vida" (Trailer for Life). Riding in a brightly
painted Dutch caravan, teams worked enthusiastically day and night
distributing information and condoms to high risk people, raising
awareness of HIV/AIDS and STDs and promoting universal precautions.
The project was carried out in conjunction with the Ministry of Health.
Although the STD/AIDS project in Santiago de Cuba was praised by the
Minister of Health and its extension to four other provinces
requested, the extension proved impossible due to unacceptable
conditions posed by the Cuban authorities. The Santiago project is
continuing with the Cuban team which had been working with MSF since
1997.
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?objectid=6589C209-DC2C...
PL (with dishonesty as prominent as hatred for the Cuban Revolution)
Nope.
I support the aims of the Cuban revolution.
I reject the dictatorial regime that Castro and the communists - previously
allied with Batista - have set up.
See: http://www.cubaverdad.net/revolution.htm
for more facts about the Cuban revolution.

Some actions Barry supports:
- repression
http://www.cubaverdad.net/systematic_repression_of_dissent.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/cuba_repressive_machinery.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/repression.php
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/represion.php
- violations of the freedom of speech of Cubans
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/freedom_of_speech.php
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/internet.php
-violations of the freedom of movement of Cubans
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/freedom_of_movement.php
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/balsero.php
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/migration.php
- violations of other human rights in Cuba
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/human_rights.php
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/derechos_humanos.php
- torture by the Cuban regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/a_cuban_punishment_cell.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/torture.php
- a totalitarian system
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
- repressive laws that violate human rights
http://www.cubaverdad.net/repressive_laws.htm
- imprisonment of peaceful opponents of the regime of Fidel Castro
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/75_imprisoned_in_march_2003.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/themefeeds/black_spring.php
- the destruction of thousands of life in acts of democide and politicide
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/13_de_marzo.htm
Post by Barry Schier
is oblivious to the fact that his citeation rebuts his claim,
" The Cuban anti-AIDS program was set up [by] which was then forced
out of Cuba:" The program not only wasn't "kicked of Cuba", but
but the "project is continuing with the Cuban team
(snip)

and nobody wants to acknowledge MSF any more.
That is why they had to go.
Can you post ONE acknowledgement of the crucial rome of MSF by the Cuban
government that now like to taunt "their" achivements in the fight against
aids?
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
Post by Barry Schier
(1.1) Guess how many pennies and minutes of that organization's budget,
efforts, etc. come from "Uncle Sam"!
(snip)
You tell us.
A fact is that ALL pennies and personnel come from "capitalist" countries
and that this ONE organization, by your Stalinist friend's admission Provide
MORE FREE medical services than Cuba.
Post by Barry Schier
(3) The Cuban GOVERNMENT, by contrast, supplies most of both the personnel
(e.g., about 25,000 doctors) and material which is
used to provide medical services AT NO CHARGE `
A lie.
Chavez pays Cuba in cash and oil.
PL brings up a red herring when he states that the revenue for those
medical services (including persoonel and material) comes from
payments made by Venezuela's President "in cash and oil"
No "red herring".
Cuba is far from altruistic here.
Chavez pays Cuba.
Post by Barry Schier
It is that medical services are provided to Venezuelans by the Cubans
AT NO CHARGE TO THE RECIPIENTS OF THOSE
SERVICES that matters.
Nope.
That doesn't say anything about Castro.
You claimed that Cuba provided the services to Venezuelans fro free.
That is a lie.
The cost to the Venezuela people is hundreds of millions of dollars in
direct transfers and up to billions in subsidies to the Castro regime.
Chavez gives, Castro takes. The Venezuelan people pays from oil revenues.

PL
PL
2007-03-18 18:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
Links to over 100 human rights reports on Cuba:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm

Visit www.cubaverdad.net for more information about Cuba.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-18 21:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
On the contrary, the abusers are your political masters in Miami and
Washington, Mr. Lobbyist. (See previous posting, and featured article,
"Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
Post by PL
Links to over 100 human rights reports on Cuba:http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Repeatedly debunked here over the years.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-18 22:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
On the contrary, the abusers are your political masters
Unlike you comrade Dan I have no masters.
Post by Dan Christensen
in Miami and
Washington, Mr. Lobbyist. (See previous posting, and featured article,
"Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
The trade sanctions are no genocide and you will prove it by again failing
to post even ONE link to a quote by a reputable international organization
referring to the trade sanctions as such.
In the mean time the US is the largets food supplier of Cuba that needs to
import 84% of the basic foodstuffs for Cubans and has been since 2002.
Not the best way to go about a "genocide" hey Mr. Serial Liar.
Castro on the other hand is firmly on the list of Genocide Watch for his
abuses.
See: http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Repeatedly debunked here over the years.
Serial Liar Canadian Stalinist Dan Christensen would like you to believe he
"debunked" over 100 human rights reports by organizations like HRW, Amnesty,
RSF ...
In fact all he has done is snipping.
But maybe he can post some examples of his "debunking" here.
Don't hold your breath. He has nothing at all. He is just a Stalinist
propagandist.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-18 23:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
On the contrary, the abusers are your political masters
Unlike you comrade Dan I have no masters.
Post by Dan Christensen
in Miami and
Washington, Mr. Lobbyist. (See previous posting, and featured article,
"Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
The trade sanctions are no genocide and you will prove it by again failing
to post even ONE link to a quote by a reputable international organization
referring to the trade sanctions as such.
In the mean time the US is the largets food supplier of Cuba that needs to
import 84% of the basic foodstuffs for Cubans and has been since 2002.
Not the best way to go about a "genocide" hey Mr. Serial Liar.
Castro on the other hand is firmly on the list of Genocide Watch for his
abuses.
See:http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Repeatedly debunked here over the years.
Serial Liar Canadian Stalinist Dan Christensen would like you to believe he
"debunked" over 100 human rights reports by organizations like HRW, Amnesty,
RSF ...
In fact all he has done is snipping.
But maybe he can post some examples of his "debunking" here.
Don't hold your breath. He has nothing at all. He is just a Stalinist
propagandist.
Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%...
"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%...
Unquote.
You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........
Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.
As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.
Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?...
Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.
Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?...
'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823
YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."
In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.
" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report
You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.
"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."
Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".
See:http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.
PL
0ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo0
Paul

Do something good for Mankind. Drop Dead! Surely the Devil will be
happy to see you.

T.Schmidt
P.S. I sincerely mean it, you are using oxygen that I need for my
dog..
PL
2007-03-19 08:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
On the contrary, the abusers are your political masters
Unlike you comrade Dan I have no masters.
Post by Dan Christensen
in Miami and
Washington, Mr. Lobbyist. (See previous posting, and featured article,
"Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
The trade sanctions are no genocide and you will prove it by again failing
to post even ONE link to a quote by a reputable international
organization
referring to the trade sanctions as such.
In the mean time the US is the largets food supplier of Cuba that needs to
import 84% of the basic foodstuffs for Cubans and has been since 2002.
Not the best way to go about a "genocide" hey Mr. Serial Liar.
Castro on the other hand is firmly on the list of Genocide Watch for his
abuses.
See:http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Repeatedly debunked here over the years.
Serial Liar Canadian Stalinist Dan Christensen would like you to believe he
"debunked" over 100 human rights reports by organizations like HRW, Amnesty,
RSF ...
In fact all he has done is snipping.
But maybe he can post some examples of his "debunking" here.
Don't hold your breath. He has nothing at all. He is just a Stalinist
propagandist.
Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%...
"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%...
Unquote.
You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........
Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.
As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.
Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?...
Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.
Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved
embargo."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?...
'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he
said.http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad
archive:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823
YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to
it)http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."
In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.
" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report
You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.
"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."
Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".
See:http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.
PL
0ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo0
Do something good for Mankind. Drop Dead! Surely the Devil will be
happy to see you.
T.Schmidt
P.S. I sincerely mean it, you are using oxygen that I need for my
dog..
Get a life old racist.

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-19 08:52:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
0ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo0
Do something good for Mankind. Drop Dead! Surely the Devil will be
happy to see you.
T.Schmidt
P.S. I sincerely mean it, you are using oxygen that I need for my
dog..
Get a life old racist.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I am serious, it is futile to resist, you will end up in Hell. Evil
people always pay for their sins.

T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] I am old, but not a racist.
P.S. [2] You talk like a Sionist. Are they paying you well? I would
guess you are overpaid a lot, too much quantity but zero quality.
P.S. [3] Of course, you have no brain available for thinking, you have
only brain tissue sufficient for the most basic biological functions.
Your head must be the size of a pea.
P.S. [4] Do you think I don't like what I do? I do it for fun!
PL
2007-03-19 09:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
0ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo0
Do something good for Mankind. Drop Dead! Surely the Devil will be
happy to see you.
T.Schmidt
P.S. I sincerely mean it, you are using oxygen that I need for my
dog..
Get a life old racist.
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I am serious, it is futile to resist, you will end up in Hell. Evil
people always pay for their sins.
T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] I am old, but not a racist.
(snip)

Yes you are. A racist, antisemite and self-confessed habitual liar

Your words racist:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

On his lying nature:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-19 09:59:17 UTC
Permalink
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Paul Lamot

I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer, and very stupid, as any one can see. Your
inferiority is apparent. Did you eat lead based paint while in your
crib as a baby?

T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
P.S. [2] The more you suffer, the better. We are your worst nightmare.
God is punishing you thru us. Tu-tu-tu-roooo!
PL
2007-03-19 10:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)

Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt

Your words racist:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

On his lying nature:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-19 10:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)
Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

You are just confirming, Goebbels would call you a useful idiot. I
told you I am not a racist.

T.Schmidt
P.S. No way out for you, subhuman!
PL
2007-03-19 10:54:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)
Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
You are just confirming, Goebbels would call you a useful idiot.
and you share a lot of vocabulary with him, no?

Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de todo)
http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm

but then you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?

"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su vida."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?dmode=source&hl=en

"sin duda Goebbels era un genio"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?dmode=source&hl=en
Post by PL
I told you I am not a racist.
But then you yourself said you were an habitual liar and that one had to
verify what you claimed against the facts.
The facts are below. They show you are lying again.
Post by PL
T.Schmidt
P.S. No way out for you, subhuman!
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt

Your words racist:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

On his lying nature:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-19 14:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)
Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
You are just confirming, Goebbels would call you a useful idiot.
and you share a lot of vocabulary with him, no?
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de todo)http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm
but then you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?
"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su vida."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?...
"sin duda Goebbels era un genio"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?...
Post by PL
I told you I am not a racist.
But then you yourself said you were an habitual liar and that one had to
verify what you claimed against the facts.
The facts are below. They show you are lying again.
Post by PL
T.Schmidt
P.S. No way out for you, subhuman!
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I am not a racist, but you are a capitalist pig. You will be roasted
in Hell for all eternity.

T.Schmidt
P.S. When Goebbels died I was less than six years old. I share with
him the doctorate, but not his ideas.
PL
2007-03-19 15:29:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)
Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
You are just confirming, Goebbels would call you a useful idiot.
and you share a lot of vocabulary with him, no?
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de
todo)http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm
but then you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?
"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su
vida."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?...
"sin duda Goebbels era un
genio"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?...
Post by PL
I told you I am not a racist.
But then you yourself said you were an habitual liar and that one had to
verify what you claimed against the facts.
The facts are below. They show you are lying again.
Post by PL
T.Schmidt
P.S. No way out for you, subhuman!
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not a racist, but you are a capitalist pig.
Yes you are racist liar

Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt

Your words racist:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

On his lying nature:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en
Post by ljsprojects
You will be roasted in Hell for all eternity.
You really mis the days of the crematoria in Auschwitz I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. When Goebbels died I was less than six years old. I share with
him the doctorate,
what doctorate?
"Doctor in Racist Ranting" seems to fit the bill.
Post by ljsprojects
but not his ideas.
You share vocabulary:

Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de todo)
http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm

and you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?

"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su vida."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?dmode=source&hl=en

"sin duda Goebbels era un genio"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
ljsprojects
2007-03-19 16:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)
Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
You are just confirming, Goebbels would call you a useful idiot.
and you share a lot of vocabulary with him, no?
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de
todo)http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm
but then you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?
"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su
vida."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?...
"sin duda Goebbels era un
genio"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?...
Post by PL
I told you I am not a racist.
But then you yourself said you were an habitual liar and that one had to
verify what you claimed against the facts.
The facts are below. They show you are lying again.
Post by PL
T.Schmidt
P.S. No way out for you, subhuman!
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not a racist, but you are a capitalist pig.
Yes you are racist liar
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
Post by ljsprojects
You will be roasted in Hell for all eternity.
You really mis the days of the crematoria in Auschwitz I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. When Goebbels died I was less than six years old. I share with
him the doctorate,
what doctorate?
"Doctor in Racist Ranting" seems to fit the bill.
Post by ljsprojects
but not his ideas.
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de todo)http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm
and you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?
"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su vida."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?...
"sin duda Goebbels era un genio"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Para Paul, el cochintio capitalista

Recuerda que yo soy mil veces mas inteligente que tú. Ve a buscar
ayuda. Gente como tú hace ver a la derecha peor de lo que en realidad
es.

Me has servido de tonto útil, hasta el momento. Espero que no se
aburran de leernos. Trata de no repetir tanto, que te van a poner en
el Kill File. Yo creo que los que nos leen podrían buscar mis
postings y enterarse quien soy sin necesidad de tu seguir tus malas
intencionados recortes. Recuerda que los que leen no son tontos y tu
tienes fama de tergiversador, mentiroso e hipócrita.

Aquí voy, el tema es mi "amigo" Goebbels.

1 - Goebbels sacó su PhD en literatura, nada científico, por cierto.
Su
consejero era un judío (mi consejero tambié era judío, pero converso).
Igual que Paul Lamot, Goebbels era muy católico y excelente
proagandista, muy inteligente sin duda, para poder engañar tan bien a
los alemanes.
2 - Igual que Lamot, envidiaba a los triunfadores y se dedicaba a
denigrar y difamar a los que veía superiores. En castellano uno diría
que tenía una lengua de víbora.
3 - Igual que Lamot, nació deforme (lo que llaman club foot) y siempre
se sintió inferior a los alemanes. Era feo como Lamot, pero a
diferencia, era muy afortunado en el amor. De gay no tenía nada.
4 - Igual que Lamot, que adora a Bush, Goebbels idolatraba al judío y
muy católico Hitler, siendo ambos miembros de la Sociedad Thule (el
equivalente alemán de los Skull & Bones de Bush).
Entre los nazis, dicen que el que era mas inteligente era Goebbels.


Otro nazi muy inteligente era Alfred Rosenberg, de orígen judío igual
que Hitler, estudió ingeniería en Moscú, pero no creo que sea PhD como
yo. A ese lo dejo para otra oacsión. Para ayudar a los que me leen y
les interesan mis temas, vayan a este URL y lean sobre Rosenberg.

http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/swasti07.htm

Ahora sobre este genial alemén de nombre Teddy Schmidt.
Mi PhD es en ingeniería, Gas Technoly [IIT, 1973], pero en realidad
debería llamarse PhD en Enrgética, sólo que como es pagado por la AGA
[Amercian Gas Association] se exigía meter la palabra Gas [por Gas
Natural]. Yo nunca hubier estudiado lo que tú estudiaste, si me guío
por los resultados. ¿Terminaste y recibiste el título o te botaron
después de darte el premio de consolación? No contestes, que ya me
imagino tu repuesta. No eres el primer loser que se cruza en mi
camino.

T.Schmidt
P.S. [1] Vivo en Canadá, retirado en uno de los mejores países del
Mundo. Anteriormente trabajé en Venezuela, en los EEuu. y en Colombia,
siempre en investigación. Posteo para defender la Libertad de
Expresión.
P.S. [2] Se me olvdió ir al URL del discuro del Dr. Goebbels. Voy a
leerlo y regreso.
PL
2007-03-19 17:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by ljsprojects
Post by ljsprojects
Post by PL
Post by ljsprojects
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
PL
I don't see any change in your postings, copy and paste a hundred
times. You are a spammer,
No.
Every time you lie I expose your lie.
Post by ljsprojects
and very stupid,
(snip)
Nope.
You are. racists are stupid.
Post by ljsprojects
P.S. [1] It must be terrible to feel yourself inferior to others for
years and then finding one day a very intellingent and successful
German that calls you inferior. Isn't it so?
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what youy are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta,
comprobada
a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo,
lo
que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by PL
You are just confirming, Goebbels would call you a useful idiot.
and you share a lot of vocabulary with him, no?
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de
todo)http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm
but then you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?
"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su
vida."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?...
"sin duda Goebbels era un
genio"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?...
Post by PL
I told you I am not a racist.
But then you yourself said you were an habitual liar and that one had to
verify what you claimed against the facts.
The facts are below. They show you are lying again.
Post by PL
T.Schmidt
P.S. No way out for you, subhuman!
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no
siempre
la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
I am not a racist, but you are a capitalist pig.
Yes you are racist liar
Thanks for being stupid enough to show what you are Herr SSchmidt
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea,
subhumano"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?...
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los
milenios.."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?...
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?
- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?...
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por
fuera."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?...
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn
atrevido."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?...
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que
digo"http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?d...
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que
verificar."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?...
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil
descubrirme"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?...
Post by ljsprojects
You will be roasted in Hell for all eternity.
You really mis the days of the crematoria in Auschwitz I guess.
Post by ljsprojects
T.Schmidt
P.S. When Goebbels died I was less than six years old. I share with
him the doctorate,
what doctorate?
"Doctor in Racist Ranting" seems to fit the bill.
Post by ljsprojects
but not his ideas.
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de
todo)http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm
and you called him "your friend" and a "genius", no?
"Mi amigo Goebbels era el único nazi suficientemente inteligente para ser
capaza de sacar un PhD. Por eso se suicidó, al darse cuenta que había echado
a perder su
vida."http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3bbd0cbdb2e40c78?...
"sin duda Goebbels era un
genio"http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/084ceb78819bb2cb?...
PL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by ljsprojects
Para Paul, el cochintio capitalista
insultas no cambian la verda pobre racista antisemita
Post by ljsprojects
Recuerda que yo soy mil veces mas inteligente que tú.
eres un tonto racista viejo.
Nada mas
Post by ljsprojects
Ve a buscar ayuda.
No o necesito.
Tu necesitas ayuada medica.

(snip)
Post by ljsprojects
Aquí voy, el tema es mi "amigo" Goebbels.
El que tiene el doctorado en "racismo antisemita" como tu?

Comparten el mismo vocabulario.
Eso es claro.
Birthday speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels on the 19th of April 1945,
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber alles, (Alemania encima de todo)
http://www.pzg.biz/cd_speeches.htm

Tus palabras viejo racista:
- "Alemania esta por encima del mundo, acostumbrate a la idea, subhumano"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3b4a16af18dfef57?dmode=source&hl=
- "Y la superioridad de los alemanes es una verdad absoluta, comprobada a
traves de los milenios.."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/9ef0f67bfbf2d3d9?dmode=source&hl=en
"Deutschland uber Alles" no, Herr SSchmidt?

- "Los cubanos son malos y ahora me doy cuenta que ni para reparar paredes
sirven"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/aeaf5dd944b853e5?dmode=source&hl=en
- " Posiblemente los cubanos adem?s de malos, son brutos. Y porque est?n
enla isla no se ven mejor que los que est?n por fuera."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/7009dad31c3a3086?dmode=source&hl=en
- "Los polacos tienen fama en Europa de ser un poco brutos, qui?n sabe
qu?metida de pata habr?n cometido. Tambi?n es posible que Fidel haya
escogido alos que consider menos inteligentes para hacerles pasar un mal
rato. Conalemanes no se hubiearn atrevido."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/6c8ab95ab2dd9749?dmode=source&hl=en

Lo que dice Herr SSchmidt de usu meniras:
- "Y ya he dicho como cien veces que chequéen lo que digo, que no siempre la
verdad es lo que digo"
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2532e3cde9b17e51?dmode=source&hl=en
- "También es bueno que recuerden que no soy un servicio informativo, lo que
digo a veces es mentira, por eso tienen que verificar."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fabb58173745a32e?dmode=source
- "Mentiroso soy a veces, pero es fácil descubrirme"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8a4fde90c34ba79b?dmode=source&hl=en

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-19 03:53:18 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 18, 6:34 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
On the contrary, the abusers are your political masters
Unlike you comrade Dan I have no masters.
Yeah, right! (See "PL's same tired old lies and evasions..." in this
thread.)
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
in Miami and
Washington, Mr. Lobbyist. (See previous posting, and featured article,
"Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
The trade sanctions are no genocide and you will prove it by again failing
to post even ONE link to a quote by a reputable international organization
referring to the trade sanctions as such.
Your crimes against the Cuban people have been well documented by the
likes of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN. And
while you may take some comfort in the fact that, for murky political
reasons, you and your man, Dubya, have yet to be arrested for them,
under the terms of Article 2c of the UN Genocide Convention, they do
indeed constitute a form of genocide. (For details, see featured
article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
Post by PL
In the mean time the US is the largets food supplier of Cuba that needs to
import 84%
[snip]

Recently debunked here. See the recent thread, "This is an embargo?"
Post by PL
Castro on the other hand is firmly on the list of Genocide Watch for his
abuses.
[snip]

Not so "firmly" any more, Mr. Lobbyist. Did you forget about GW's
recent climb-down in this regard? A major setback for all you embargo-
Nazis, wasn't it?

Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, pointing out
to him that no mainstream human rights group like Amnesty
International or Human Rights Watch will support the outrageous claims
at his website of some 75,000 deaths in Cuba. He could not explain
this, and simply referred me to their only source on Cuba -- a book by
US-based academic, Rudy Rummell. Apparently GW has never actually
investigated anything at all to do with Cuba! There isn't a single
article devoted to Cuba at their website -- only a large table listing
dozens of countries, perhaps for the purpose of impressing potential
donors, with a one-liner about Cuba.

Anyway, some time late in 2005, they withdrew their outrageous claim.
I won't claim responsibility, but now they wisely decline to give any
specific figure at all -- progress of a sort, I guess.

Similarly the same year, the London-based International Centre for
Prison Studies, year also backed down on their outrageous claims about
Cuba. Now, they list the USA as having the highest incarceration rate
in the world, with Cuba a distant 7th. Must be frustrating as hell,
eh, Mr. Lobbyist?


Here is what HRW, as long ago as 1989, had to say about the
exaggerated claims of your political masters in Miami and Washington:

"...[T]he Commission's initial decision to review human rights in Cuba
was due in large part to exaggerated U.S. charges of ongoing political
executions, disappearances and torture... [T]he U.N. delegation to
Cuba found no evidence to support those allegations."
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1989/WR89/Cuba.htm

So it seems the only genocide here is, in fact, your beloved embargo,
Mr. Lobbyist!
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Repeatedly debunked here over the years.
Serial Liar
[snip]

We are STILL waiting for you to cite even one important allegation
which you think I have not debunked here over the past few years.

Generally speaking, what you claim is a human rights violation is
usually an outright lie or Cuba, quite rightly, resisting US
imperialist onslaught. We know that your political masters have a long
history of subverting governments that challenge their rule in any
region of the world -- especially in Latin America. (See "Cuba Under
Siege" at my website.) Cubans simply have too much to lose to allow
US agents and their lackeys to operate with impunity on the island,
organizing subversive groups and distributing money and materials for
the sole purpose of overthrowing the government. Your political
masters would never allow it their own country. Why should Cuba? And
these days, the crimes of your political master make allegations
against Cuba look like the proverbial Sunday school picnic! (AI
website)

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-19 09:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by Observador
Why is it that cuba after half a century of communism still has such a
shitty economy???
Nothing like blaming the victim
The victim is the Cuban people.
The abuser is the Cuban regime.
On the contrary, the abusers are your political masters
Unlike you comrade Dan I have no masters.
Yeah, right!
Indeed.
Right.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
in Miami and
Washington, Mr. Lobbyist. (See previous posting, and featured article,
"Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website.)
The trade sanctions are no genocide and you will prove it by again failing
to post even ONE link to a quote by a reputable international
organization
referring to the trade sanctions as such.
Your crimes against the Cuban people have been well documented by the
likes of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN.
Nope.
More lies and innuendo from an exposed serial liar.
Post any link to on "my" crimes.
You are such a ludicrous Cyber Liar.
Post by Dan Christensen
while you may take some comfort in the fact that, for murky political
reasons, you and your man, Dubya, have yet to be arrested for them,
get real comrade Dan.
unlike you I am nobody's servant.
Post by Dan Christensen
under the terms of Article 2c of the UN Genocide Convention, they do
indeed constitute a form of genocide.
(snip)

Nope comrade Dan.
The text of the convention and the recent judgment in the Hague make that
very clear.
On the Hague and the essential element of "intent" see:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/26/world/europe/26cnd-hague.html?ex=1330146000&en=618cdbd39150534f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
You are again going to prove that by failing to post even ONE
quote from a reputable international organization that would say so or even
refer to the trade sanctions as "genocide"
Note how comrade Dan fails to provide a link to the article. Below you will
read why.
Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/convention/text.htm

There is no intent whatsover on the part of the US to "bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part" of the Cuban people. Actually the
opposte.
Another lie by Dan Christensen exposed.


The US is - and has been since 2002 - the biggest food supplier of Cuba. A
people that needs to import 84% of the basic foodstuffs.
Not a way to go about a "genocide", no?
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
In the mean time the US is the largets food supplier of Cuba that needs to
import 84%
[snip]
Recently debunked here.
(snip)

Never debunked comrade Dan.
You desperately tried to claim it was an "error" siting as "proof" that the
message was no longer on the server of Granma.
I exposed that lie by posting links to the text of the article on the Granma
site (two languages) and the AIN site

Dan's inital claim of an error:
"As various reports show (e.g. CBS News), the 84% figure was originally
published in Granma. I saw it online myself. It is no longer there, as
far as I can tell. An obvious error, it seems to me."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/65583cff74317a4e?hl=en&

The jubilant in his propaganda effort as always.
"The Granma article in question, as far as I can tell, has been
withdrawn. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post it
here.

With Granma being the original source for this figure, it looks like
you lose again, Mr. Lobbyist. Must be frustrating as hell for you."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/35bc4cf4c2028ea8?hl=en&

Of course as always with Mr. Serial Liar Dan Christensen pride comes before
the fall.

"I have - must piss you off colmrade Dan to be exposed a a serial liar
again:
The articles Cyber Liar Dan Christensen "couldn't find" in no less than two
languages

26 February, 2007


Cuba to Increase Food Production


Camaguey.- The Cuban economy needs to increase the production of foodstuffs
to reduce dependence on the international market, said Magalys Calvo, vice
minister of Economy and Planning on Sunday.
Calvo told a provincial government assembly in Camaguey that boosting food
production is one of the principal goals of the nation for 2007.
The official said that Cuba currently invests around $1 billion USD per year
to import 84 percent of the basic foodstuffs distributed to the population.
She noted that these imports along with oil constitute the government's
largest expenditures.
Calvo also mentioned increasing exports and increased efficiency in the
country's tourism industry as key areas for improving the economy along with
the need to raise the effectiveness of investments and improve the quality
of services.
The vice minister said Cuba will continue prioritizing its debt obligations
such as those recently obtained to buy power generators, healthcare
equipment and household appliances distributed throughout the population.
(AIN)
http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu/english/news/art72.html

[Note: since replaced in the new edition of March 17 replacing Feb 26 but at
the time of Dan's lies fully available as he admitted then, the Spanish
version is still available and the English piece on the AIN site]
http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu/2007/02/26/nacional/artic02.html


The piece is also still available at the AIN website:
http://www.cubanews.ain.cu/2007/feb26economiacuba.htm

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/de6792d1ba53ceef?hl=en&

The our seriual liar tried another trick from his propaganda bag by coming
up with some "data"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/dfeb3392c010caeb?hl=en&
mixing PRODUCTION and CONSUMPTION data in an effort to confuse people.
that lie then was exposed by me in my reply.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ec08664b48c38dd0?hl=en&
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Castro on the other hand is firmly on the list of Genocide Watch for his
abuses.
[snip]
Not so "firmly" any more, Mr. Lobbyist.
as firmly as ever Mr. Cyber Liar
See:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable2006.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Did you forget about GW's
recent climb-down in this regard?
No climb down comrade Dan.
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-
Nazis, wasn't it?
You are the only one with "Nazi" attitudes, comrade Dan.

You support a regime that:
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the past:
the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca
Post by Dan Christensen
Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, (snip)
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.

You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.

Your private lies can't refute the public record.
You tried this one on a couple of times and always failed.

Do you deny you got the numbers wrong in your lie and that the
"exclusive" source you falsely claimed was used by Genocide Watch (another
"private" message) actually
gave a LOWER figure than Genocide Watch.

" I have clearly shown that your claim that Mr. Rummel is the one and only
source Genocide Watch uses is false by proving that Mr. Rummel (whose
credibility you attack without proof) gives a different figures than
Genocide Watch (73,000 versus 75,000). Genocide Watch correctly lists
Castro as a genocidal dictator because of his responsibility for the death
of over 75,000 people. "

When confronted with your lie you turned insult in to injury by claiming the
"made an error in copying", didn't you?

Dan's lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ff0ab4c53757e8a0?dmode=source&hl=en

My exposure of his lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/a44230458e76b3c7?dmode=source&hl=en

Dan's pathetic claim Genocide Watch made a mistake:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8eeb4ad61f1463d4?dmode=source&hl=en

Just keep making a fool of yourself comrade Dan.
Your lies will be exposed over and over again.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Repeatedly debunked here over the years.
Serial Liar
[snip]
We are STILL waiting for you to cite even one important allegation
which you think I have not debunked here over the past few years.
Get real comrade Dan.
you have "debunked" nothing at all as you have provrn by failing to come up
with any example.
Post by Dan Christensen
Generally speaking, what you claim is a human rights violation is
usually an outright lie or Cuba, quite rightly, resisting US
imperialist onslaught.
(snip)

Actually: what "I" and HRW, Amnesty international, the UN and so many others
say is that they are human rights abuses.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-19 19:46:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 19, 5:33 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Your crimes against the Cuban people have been well documented by the
likes of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN.
Nope.
More lies and innuendo from an exposed serial liar.
Post any link to on "my" crimes.
For starters, see "Human Rights / Amnesty International slams US
embargo" at my website. Also see featured article, "Is the US embargo
a form of genocide?"
Post by PL
You are such a ludicrous Cyber Liar.
Post by Dan Christensen
while you may take some comfort in the fact that, for murky political
reasons, you and your man, Dubya, have yet to be arrested for them,
get real comrade Dan.
unlike you I am nobody's servant.
Just a self-proclaimed lobbyist who has been promoting genocidal
sanctions against the Cuban people for years now!
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
under the terms of Article 2c of the UN Genocide Convention, they do
indeed constitute a form of genocide.
(snip)
Nope comrade Dan.
The text of the convention and the recent judgment in the Hague make that
very clear.
On the Hague and the essential element of "intent" see:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/26/world/europe/26cnd-hague.html?ex=13...
[snip]

The intent to kill is very clear. The all too predictable outcomes of
these cruel sanctions of yours have been documented by AI and others.
And what has been the Bush regime's response to these shocking
revelations? Only to intensify these sanctions to create even more
suffering in Cuba! Not content to simply "harm the most vulnerable
members of society," (as AI put it) the regime then set about trying
to spread the pain to all segments of society. As even the UN Human
Rights Commission was forced to concede, "It is also impossible to
ignore the disastrous and lasting economic and social effects of the
embargo imposed on the Cuban population over 40 years ago." (SCC
archives) Again, for details, see featured article, "Is the US embargo
a form of genocide?" at my website.
Post by PL
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
[snip]

Thanks for confirming I was right. This is precisely what your beloved
embargo has done. Makes you proud, don't it, Mr. Lobbyist?
Post by PL
The US is - and has been since 2002 - the biggest food supplier of Cuba. A
people that needs to import 84% of the basic foodstuffs.
Already debunked here. See below.
Post by PL
Not a way to go about a "genocide", no?
[snip]

As you know, the Bush regime is trying its best to kill off even this
limited, one-way trade with ever increasing financial restrictions and
endless bullying of the foreign banks that facilitate this trade.

At any rate, your transparent rationalizations are fooling no one. In
November, the UN General Assembly, for the 15th year in a row, voted
overwhelmingly to condemn your beloved embargo and called for it to be
lifted "as soon a possible." In January of this year, Amnesty
International reiterated its previous condemnation saying they "called
for the US embargo against Cuba to be lifted, as it is highly
detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range of economic, social and
cultural rights, such as the right to food, health and sanitation --
particularly affecting the weakest and most vulnerable members of the
population."
Post by PL
The official said that Cuba currently invests around $1 billion USD per year
to import 84 percent of the basic foodstuffs distributed to the population.
[snip]

Again, do the math, Mr. Lobbyist... $1 billion USD per year amounts
to only 24 cents per person per day. This cannot possibly be 84% of
their food intake as you seem to be suggesting. Once again, we see
what a truly desperate liar you are!
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, (snip)
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.
You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.
[snip]

Poor, pathetic little MISS Lobbyist -- just the thought of confirming
another source makes her poop her little pink panties! She would much
rather play it safe with her silly little girlish games here than risk
getting her fat butt kicked again. Once bitten, twice shy, eh, MISS
Lobbyist? (Hee, hee, hee!)

Anyway, if you STILL haven't found your balls and are unable to write
to Mr. Stanton (***@aol.com) to confirm his sources as I
did, do not expect a reply from me on this matter. Not that it really
matters at this point since these outrageous claims were quietly
yanked from the GW website some time ago (see previous posting).

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-19 20:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]
Buy which comrade Dan Christensen, the Canadian Stalinist apologist of the
Cuban regime admits he can't refute that:
- he lied about debunkung the fact that 84% of the basic foodstuffs for
Cubans are imported
- he lied about "debunking" any of there human rights reports
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
- he lied about me being a "criminal"
- he lied about me (and not him) being a "Nazi"
and lots more
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Your crimes against the Cuban people have been well documented by the
likes of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN.
Nope.
More lies and innuendo from an exposed serial liar.
Post any link to on "my" crimes.
For starters, see "Human Rights / Amnesty International slams US
embargo" at my website. Also see featured article, "Is the US embargo
a form of genocide?"
Which it isn't and Amnesty International Never referred to the trade
sanctions as "genocide..
A fact you will confirm by failing to post a quote from AI referring to the
trade sanctions as such.
The US is - and has been since 2002 - the biggest food supplier of Cuba. A
people that needs to import 84% of the basic foodstuffs.
Not a way to go about a "genocide", no?
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
You are such a ludicrous Cyber Liar.
Post by Dan Christensen
while you may take some comfort in the fact that, for murky political
reasons, you and your man, Dubya, have yet to be arrested for them,
get real comrade Dan.
unlike you I am nobody's servant.
Just a self-proclaimed lobbyist
Nothing "self proclaimed" and no "lobbyist".
those are re your lies Mr. Serial liar
A fact you will confirm by failing to post any unadulterated and refaced
quote.
Post by Dan Christensen
who has been promoting genocidal
sanctions against the Cuban people for years now!
There are no "genocidal sanctions" comrade Dan and you are going to prove
that for me by failing again to post just ONE quote from a reputable
international organization referring to the trade sanctions as "genocide".
The US is - and has been since 2002 - the biggest food supplier of Cuba. A
people that needs to import 84% of the basic foodstuffs.
Not a way to go about a "genocide", no?
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
under the terms of Article 2c of the UN Genocide Convention, they do
indeed constitute a form of genocide.
(snip)
Nope comrade Dan.
The text of the convention and the recent judgment in the Hague make that
very clear.
On the Hague and the essential element of "intent"
see:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/26/world/europe/26cnd-hague.html?ex=13...
[snip]
The intent to kill is very clear.
Nope.
there is no intent to Kill.
there is an inted to "feed"
The US is - and has been since 2002 - the biggest food supplier of Cuba. A
people that needs to import 84% of the basic foodstuffs.
Not a way to go about a "genocide", no?
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
[snip]
Thanks for confirming I was right.
Nope.
I just exposed your lie comrade Dan.
Claiming anything else just exposes you again
As I said:
There is no intent whatsover on the part of the US to "bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part" of the Cuban people. Actually the
opposte.
Another lie by Dan Christensen exposed.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
The US is - and has been since 2002 - the biggest food supplier of Cuba. A
people that needs to import 84% of the basic foodstuffs.
Already debunked here. See below.
Never debunked.
Firm statements by top Cuban officials.

The Increase of Food Production is Crucial for Cuban Economy

Havana, Feb 26 (ACN) An increase in food production is necessary to reduce
imports and to further boost Cuban Economy.

The statement was made by Economy and Planning deputy minister Magalys Calvo
during a session of the Provincial PeopleŽs Power Assembly in the eastern
city of Camaguey. She said that the increase of food production is a major
objective of Cuban economy for 2007.

The country imports 84 percent of the food destined to the population's
subsidized basic food basket annually; that translates into one billion
dollars which, along oil, is a major import.

The increase of exports and the improvement of efficiency in the tourist
sector are two important economic objectives for 2007 as well, said the
government official and underscored the need to improve the quality of
services and the effectiveness of the investment process.

The deputy minister said a priority is the meeting of financial obligations
and she referred to the purchase by Cuba of power generation equipment,
others destined to health care centers as well as items distributed to Cuban
households, which are part of the national energy program.

The Provincial Assembly analyzed the local budget in Camaguey for the
current year, which is larger than the one planned for 2006. A large part of
the budget will be dedicated to the sectors of culture, sports, health,
construction, education and housing.
http://www.cubanews.ain.cu/2007/feb26economiacuba.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not a way to go about a "genocide", no?
[snip]
As you know, the Bush regime is trying its best to kill off
(snip)

nobody in Cuba.
Bush actually allowed the sale of food and medicines to help the Cuban
people
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
The official said that Cuba currently invests around $1 billion USD per year
to import 84 percent of the basic foodstuffs distributed to the population.
[snip]
Again, do the math, Mr. Lobbyist... $1 billion USD per year amounts
to only 24 cents per person per day.
and it amounts to lots of rice, beans, oil, ... no?
The fact that the Cuban rationing - for which the food is destined - is
insufficent just adds to the scahme you should feel.
The rationed food is just enopugh for 10 days.

"Family ration books are given out annually, and rationing is used by the
Cuban government to ensure that every citizen has access to a basket of
basic goods at subsidised prices, covering "not less than half of
nutritional requirements," according to official estimates.


The system should guarantee equitable distribution of rice, beans, sugar,
coffee, oil, eggs, salt, pasta, bread and biscuits, fish,
chicken, other meats like sausages, and milk and yoghurt for children.


Monthly expenditure per person on subsidised, rationed goods varies from 26
to 38 pesos, according to a study by the University of Havana Centre
for Studies on the Cuban Economy (CEEC), to which IPS was given access.


Rationed goods supplied families' basic needs adequately until the 1980s,
but now it only covers their needs for 10 or 12 days a month,
according to both researchers and consumers.


For the rest of their food, consumers have to go to the agromercados, where
a variety of high quality food is available, but prices are set by
supply and demand.


For beef, oil or butter, CUC are required. "Sometimes we buy a 250-gramme
packet of butter in the network of shops that only accept
CUC, where it costs over 30 pesos," the teacher said.


"Workers living on a salary have a hard time of it, because their wages can
buy a lot of price-controlled goods, but they can't afford other
necessary items that are sold at market prices," Central Bank president
Francisco Soberón admitted in late 2005.
http://insidecostarica.com/special_reports/2007-03/cuba_food.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, (snip)
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.
You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.
[snip]
Poor, pathetic little MISS Lobbyist
(snip)

Insults don't change the facts Mr. Serial Liar

YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.

You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.

Your private lies can't refute the public record.
You tried this one on a couple of times and always failed.

Do you deny you got the numbers wrong in your lie and that the
"exclusive" source you falsely claimed was used by Genocide Watch (another
"private" message) actually
gave a LOWER figure than Genocide Watch.

" I have clearly shown that your claim that Mr. Rummel is the one and only
source Genocide Watch uses is false by proving that Mr. Rummel (whose
credibility you attack without proof) gives a different figures than
Genocide Watch (73,000 versus 75,000). Genocide Watch correctly lists
Castro as a genocidal dictator because of his responsibility for the death
of over 75,000 people. "

When confronted with your lie you turned insult in to injury by claiming the
"made an error in copying", didn't you?

Dan's lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ff0ab4c53757e8a0?dmode=source&hl=en

My exposure of his lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/a44230458e76b3c7?dmode=source&hl=en

Dan's pathetic claim Genocide Watch made a mistake:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8eeb4ad61f1463d4?dmode=source&hl=en

Just keep making a fool of yourself comrade Dan.
Your lies will be exposed over and over again.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-21 22:38:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 19, 4:11 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]
Post by PL
Post by PL
The official said that Cuba currently invests around $1 billion USD per year
to import 84 percent of the basic foodstuffs distributed to the population.
[snip]
Again, do the math, Mr. Lobbyist... $1 billion USD per year amounts
to only 24 cents per person per day.
and it amounts to lots of rice, beans, oil, ... no?
[snip]

Again, this is food purchased with hard currency at world market
prices. How much can you get for 24 cents at your local grocery store?
Here, you can't get a can of beans for twice that.
Post by PL
The fact that the Cuban rationing - for which the food is destined - is
insufficent just adds to the scahme you should feel.
The rationed food is just enopugh for 10 days.
[snip]

Irrelevant. And at any rate, as you well know, the rationing system is
not the only source of food. Quit trying to pretend that it is.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-21 23:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]
Buy which comrade Dan Christensen, the Canadian Stalinist apologist of the
Cuban regime admits he can't refute that:
- he lied about debunkung the fact that 84% of the basic foodstuffs for
Cubans are imported
- he lied about "debunking" any of there human rights reports
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
- he lied about me being a "criminal"
- he lied about me (and not him) being a "Nazi"
and lots more
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by PL
The official said that Cuba currently invests around $1 billion USD
per
year
to import 84 percent of the basic foodstuffs distributed to the population.
[snip]
Again, do the math, Mr. Lobbyist... $1 billion USD per year amounts
to only 24 cents per person per day.
and it amounts to lots of rice, beans, oil, ... no?
[snip]
Again, this is food purchased with hard currency at world market
prices.
It is mainly purchased in the US.
Post by Dan Christensen
How much can you get for 24 cents at your local grocery store?
again comrade Dan.
Where does this 24 cents come from? Why don't you address this issue?
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
The fact that the Cuban rationing - for which the food is destined - is
insufficent just adds to the scahme you should feel.
The rationed food is just enough for 10 days.
[snip]
Irrelevant.
Nope.
very relevant as it was about that part of the food consumption the minister
was speaking
But then this fact blows to pieces your moronic calculations, doesn't it?
That is why you don't want this fact introduced.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-22 02:41:20 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 21, 7:00 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snip]
Post by PL
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Again, do the math, Mr. Lobbyist... $1 billion USD per year amounts
to only 24 cents per person per day.
and it amounts to lots of rice, beans, oil, ... no?
[snip]
Again, this is food purchased with hard currency at world market
prices.
It is mainly purchased in the US.
How much can you get for 24 cents at your local grocery store?
again comrade Dan.
Where does this 24 cents come from? Why don't you address this issue?
[snip]

Supposedly $1 billion of food imports per year, 11.3 million Cubans,
365 days per year. Get it? That works out to 24 cents per person per
day.

$1,000,000,000 / 11,300,000 / 365 = $0.24

It doesn't matter how it is distrubuted or at what price -- this is
not a whole lot of food, now is it?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-22 12:48:00 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by PL
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Again, do the math, Mr. Lobbyist... $1 billion USD per year amounts
to only 24 cents per person per day.
and it amounts to lots of rice, beans, oil, ... no?
[snip]
Again, this is food purchased with hard currency at world market
prices.
It is mainly purchased in the US.
How much can you get for 24 cents at your local grocery store?
again comrade Dan.
Where does this 24 cents come from? Why don't you address this issue?
[snip]
Supposedly $1 billion of food imports per year, 11.3 million Cubans,
365 days per year. Get it? That works out to 24 cents per person per
day.
$1,000,000,000 / 11,300,000 / 365 = $0.24
But then it isn't for 365 days, is it.
The scarce food given by the rationing (the food concerned) only last 10
days in a month.
That would mean that the "imported" content is closer to 75 cents a day. and
Total content a dollar a day.
It doesn't matter how it is distrubuted or at what price -- this is
not a whole lot of food, now is it?
It is part of the meagre ration that is destributed and that also includes
WFP food aid and other "free sources".
It exposes your lies that Cubans aren't hungry.
Remember Castro has admitted that before his reign ther was no hunger in
Cuba.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-22 15:19:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 22, 8:48 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by PL
Where does this 24 cents come from? Why don't you address this issue?
[snip]
Supposedly $1 billion of food imports per year, 11.3 million Cubans,
365 days per year. Get it? That works out to 24 cents per person per
day.
$1,000,000,000 / 11,300,000 / 365 = $0.24
But then it isn't for 365 days, is it.
$1 billion PER YEAR according to your posting. That's 365 days.
Post by PL
The scarce food given by the rationing (the food concerned) only last 10
days in a month.
Are you suggesting they don't eat for the rest of the month??? Get
real!
Post by PL
That would mean that the "imported" content is closer to 75 cents a day. and
Total content a dollar a day.
Math never was your forte, was it, Mr. Lobbyist? We are talking here
about averages. Do you know what that means? Your posting gave the
figure of $1 billion for last year's imports of food. With a
population of 11.3 million, that works out to an AVERAGE of 24 cents
per person per day. At world market prices, this not a significant
amount of food.
Post by PL
It doesn't matter how it is distributed or at what price -- this is
not a whole lot of food, now is it?
It is part of the meagre ration that is destributed and that also includes
WFP food aid and other "free sources".
While they get a portion of their food for free, Cubans pay for most
of their food at markets, like everyone else. And as you know, the WFP
aid amounts (on average again) to no more than a few cents per person
per YEAR.
Post by PL
It exposes your lies that Cubans aren't hungry.
Actually, it exposes you for the truly desperate liar that you are,
Mr. Lobbyist.
Post by PL
Remember Castro has admitted that before his reign ther was no hunger in
Cuba.
[snip]

This nostalgia for your "good old days" under Batista has been
repeatedly debunked here, Mr. Lobbyist. (See SCC archives. Also see
featured article, "What do Cubans stand to lose, and who stands to
gain?" at my website.)

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom/ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-22 21:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by PL
Where does this 24 cents come from? Why don't you address this issue?
[snip]
Supposedly $1 billion of food imports per year, 11.3 million Cubans,
365 days per year. Get it? That works out to 24 cents per person per
day.
$1,000,000,000 / 11,300,000 / 365 = $0.24
But then it isn't for 365 days, is it.
$1 billion PER YEAR according to your posting. That's 365 days.
But not for food for 365 days comrade Dan.
For 84% of the food that last as mere 10 days a month at best.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
The scarce food given by the rationing (the food concerned) only last 10
days in a month.
Are you suggesting they don't eat for the rest of the month??? Get
real!
Nope.
I say that they depend on the aid of others (773,000 on WFP help - 60% on
remittances by the "gusanos" you hate) and on theft to survive.

"A dysfunctional economy means major problems with productivity and the
delivery of goods and services, forcing many Cubans to break some law in
order scrape out a living. Many steal from state enterprises and then sell
items -- from air conditioners to microwaves to lobster tails and slabs of
horsemeat -- "por la izquierda," or "from the left," a common phrase used to
refer the black market."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,0,2389554.story?coll=sfla-news-cuba

"The rest must steal to make ends meet or concoct ways of making money
zurdo," he said, using the Spanish word for "left-handed," meaning "a secret
or dishonest way."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cubaremit20jan20,1,6442153.story?coll=la-headlines-business&track=crosspromo

"Stealing from state workplaces or operating small, illegal businesses is so
common that Cubans dismiss it as an almost acceptable part of daily life."
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/15/Worldandnation/Cuba_s_economy_rife_w.shtml

"The other migrant from the ill-fated voyage to the bridge, Carlos Enríquez
Fernández, 36, is serving a four-year prison term for stealing meat two
years ago, according to his mother, Caridad. She said he had been free while
his case was appealed, but the appeal was denied. He was arrested in
Matanzas about 10 days ago."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-amedina01mar01,0,3797828.story?coll=sfla-news-cuba

"One pensioner said that his brother, who works in a state-run cigar
factory, has to steal cigars and sell them on the black market to survive."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2482402,00.html

"But in recent months the government has expressed its determination to deal
with what it concedes is rampant low-level corruption across the
economy.

Last November, President Fidel Castro - who is now recuperating from
intestinal surgery - warned that corruption had the power to destroy the
revolution itself.

He condemned the fact that in some areas half of all the fuel in state
petrol stations was being stolen.

'Legitimate supplement'

His brother Raul last week criticised workers' leaders for failing to do
enough to stop stealing from state enterprises.

Many Cubans tend to shrug their shoulders when asked about corruption.

With the state salary here at about $15 (£8) a month, and many essentials
such as cooking oil and soap only available in hard currency, plenty regard
skimming off what they can from their jobs as a necessary - even
legitimate - supplement to their incomes.

They are less happy when they find that, as consumers, they are also being
ripped off.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/5397926.stm
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
That would mean that the "imported" content is closer to 75 cents a day. and
Total content a dollar a day.
Math never was your forte, was it, Mr. Lobbyist?
I am a lot better at math and facts than you comrade Dan.
Post by Dan Christensen
We are talking here
about average
Indeed: food that last on average of 10 days an moth (120).
that is the correct average.
84% of that minimal amount of food is paid for by about 75%. that mean a
dollar.
10 dollars for the basic foodstuffs based in international wholesale prices.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
It doesn't matter how it is distributed or at what price -- this is
not a whole lot of food, now is it?
It is part of the meagre ration that is destributed and that also includes
WFP food aid and other "free sources".
While they get a portion of their food for free, Cubans pay for most
of their food at markets,
(snip)-

Still waiting for that falily budget for a Cuban famaily of 4 I have asked
you for.
Your desparte fear to post one shows that you know that you are lying.
773,000 people in Oriente receive WFP food aid.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
It exposes your lies that Cubans aren't hungry.
Actually, it exposes you for the truly desperate liar that you are,
Nope.
Just saying what Cubans say

"For many Cubans, the problems with the system include inadequate public
transportation, crumbling housing, food shortages and soaring prices."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,0,2389554.s\tory?coll=sfla-news-cuba
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28594
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Remember Castro has admitted that before his reign ther was no hunger in
Cuba.
[snip]
This nostalgia for your "good old days" under Batista
Nope.
I don't want that other communist supported dictator back.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/revolution.htm
I want a free and democratic Cuba.
Unlike you.

But even Castro admitted that under Batista ther was no hunger. There is now
a lot of it under Castro.
Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis and no hunger in
Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise and Fall of
Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-03-23 03:16:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 22, 5:17 pm, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
That would mean that the "imported" content is closer to 75 cents a day. and
Total content a dollar a day.
Math never was your forte, was it, Mr. Lobbyist?
I am a lot better at math and facts than you comrade Dan.
It is isn't obvious here, I'm afraid.

Or maybe you are just desperately hoping the average reader here
hasn't gone much beyond the 2nd grade. That is your only hope.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
We are talking here
about average
Indeed: food that last on average of 10 days an moth (120).
that is the correct average.
84% of that minimal amount of food is paid for by about 75%. that mean a
dollar.
Poor pathetic lobbyist... It's simple arithmetic, you idiot!

Again, since you snipped it in your obvious despair, we are talking
about $ 1 billion (USD) worth of food imports for one year. With a
population of 11.3 million, that amounts to an AVERAGE of 24 cents per
person per day at world market prices. (You never did tell us how much
you can buy for 24 cents at your local food market.) No matter how you
slice it, this is not a significant amount of food. Quit pretending
that it is.

Anyway, it seems you have been reduced once again to mindlessly
repeating your failed arguments here, desperately hoping that no one
has noticed. Your pathetic attempts to change the subject aren't
working for you either. Each of your claims here has been repeatedly
debunked here in any case. (SCC archives) If you can think of nothing
new and relevant to add, do not expect a reply from me on this matter.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-03-23 12:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
That would mean that the "imported" content is closer to 75 cents a
day.
and
Total content a dollar a day.
Math never was your forte, was it, Mr. Lobbyist?
I am a lot better at math and facts than you comrade Dan.
It is isn't obvious here, I'm afraid.
(snip)

Your usual game of trying to take isolated numbers and twist them didn't
work comrade Dan.
If food does not last 365 days as shown (at best 120) then your calculations
are misleading.
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
We are talking here
about average
Indeed: food that last on average of 10 days an moth (120).
that is the correct average.
84% of that minimal amount of food is paid for by about 75%. that mean a
dollar.
Poor pathetic lobbyist... It's simple arithmetic, you idiot!
(snip)

Yes it is.
It is very simple to show how you try to mislead people.
The one billion dollar is for 84% of the rationed food that Cuba provides to
it's people.
That ration - even with the additions by the WFP - only lasts about 10 days
a month.

From the facts you snipped it is clear that the rationing is indeed wholly
inadequate.
I have shown with press quotes that Cubans constantly complain about it and
that the WFP found it necessary to step in.
I have also shown how Cubans now are reduced to having to depend on WFP food
aid, remittances and theft to survive under Castro.
You have failed - again - as you have done hundreds of times by now to post
a budget for a Cuban family of four as you know that any attempt to do so
will expose your propaganda lies and will show what hardship Cubans are
experiencing.
Even Castro admitted that under Batista ther was no hunger.
"Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis and no hunger in
Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise and Fall of
Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Note on the author Maurice Halperin:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/references/halperin.htm
"For many Cubans, the problems with the system include inadequate public
transportation, crumbling housing, food shortages and soaring prices."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,0,2389554.s\tory?coll=sfla-news-cuba
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28594

You are a pathetic failed Stalinist propagandist.

On WFP help:
www.wfp.org

On theft and corruption as means of survival:

"A dysfunctional economy means major problems with productivity and the
delivery of goods and services, forcing many Cubans to break some law in
order scrape out a living. Many steal from state enterprises and then sell
items -- from air conditioners to microwaves to lobster tails and slabs of
horsemeat -- "por la izquierda," or "from the left," a common phrase used to
refer the black market."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-acubanotebook04feb04,0,2389554.story?coll=sfla-news-cuba

"The rest must steal to make ends meet or concoct ways of making money
zurdo," he said, using the Spanish word for "left-handed," meaning "a secret
or dishonest way."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cubaremit20jan20,1,6442153.story?coll=la-headlines-business&track=crosspromo

"Stealing from state workplaces or operating small, illegal businesses is so
common that Cubans dismiss it as an almost acceptable part of daily life."
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/15/Worldandnation/Cuba_s_economy_rife_w.shtml

"The other migrant from the ill-fated voyage to the bridge, Carlos Enríquez
Fernández, 36, is serving a four-year prison term for stealing meat two
years ago, according to his mother, Caridad. She said he had been free while
his case was appealed, but the appeal was denied. He was arrested in
Matanzas about 10 days ago."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-amedina01mar01,0,3797828.story?coll=sfla-news-cuba

"One pensioner said that his brother, who works in a state-run cigar
factory, has to steal cigars and sell them on the black market to survive."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2482402,00.html

"But in recent months the government has expressed its determination to deal
with what it concedes is rampant low-level corruption across the
economy.

Last November, President Fidel Castro - who is now recuperating from
intestinal surgery - warned that corruption had the power to destroy the
revolution itself.

He condemned the fact that in some areas half of all the fuel in state
petrol stations was being stolen.

'Legitimate supplement'

His brother Raul last week criticised workers' leaders for failing to do
enough to stop stealing from state enterprises.

Many Cubans tend to shrug their shoulders when asked about corruption.

With the state salary here at about $15 (£8) a month, and many essentials
such as cooking oil and soap only available in hard currency, plenty regard
skimming off what they can from their jobs as a necessary - even
legitimate - supplement to their incomes.

They are less happy when they find that, as consumers, they are also being
ripped off.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/5397926.stm


On remittances and access to dollars and the proportion of Cubans that get
them:
http://socrates.berkeley.edu:7001/Events/series/cuba/chavez-writeup.html
http://www.netforcuba.org/News-EN/2006/Nov/News1272.htm
http://www.ncbuy.com/reference/country/backgrounds.html?code=cu&sec=backeconomy


Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL

Jerry Kraus
2007-03-19 20:20:23 UTC
Permalink
One of the things you can find out about on Cuban radio are the
harmful additives in the pharmaceuticals produced in the United
States. Because the drug companies are completely indifferent to
actually helping anyone with their products, because their sole
interest is making money, they frequently tamper with their own drugs
to reduce their effectiveness and deliberately create negative side
effects -- rather like the way organized crime "cuts" drugs when
producing them for sale. Capitalism = Corruption. Sorry, that's just
the way it is.
PL
2007-03-19 20:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
One of the things you can find out about on Cuban radio are the
harmful additives in the pharmaceuticals produced in the United
States.
(snip)
but they don't talk about the fact that Cuba has a medical apartheid system
and that even the most basic medicines are not available for Cubans, no?
http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Jerry Kraus
2007-03-19 20:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Jerry Kraus
harmful additives in the pharmaceuticals produced in the United
States.
(snip)
but they don't talk about the fact that Cuba has a medical apartheid system
and that even the most basic medicines are not available for Cubans, no?http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Possibly because of the U.S. boycott against them, which they talk
about a great deal, no?
PL
2007-03-19 21:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Jerry Kraus
things you can find out about on Cuban radio are the
Post by Jerry Kraus
harmful additives in the pharmaceuticals produced in the United
States.
(snip)
but they don't talk about the fact that Cuba has a medical apartheid system
and that even the most basic medicines are not available for Cubans,
no?http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Possibly because of the U.S. boycott against them, which they talk
about a great deal, no?
They do talk about it a great deal indeed, but at the same time the "elite -
tourist" part of the apartheid system has all the medicines and equipment
that the Cuban part hasn't. They even advertise the services.
See: http://www.cubaverdad.net/apartheid_in_cuba.htm#II._Medical_apartheid.
Is the "boycott" that selective?
Why are antibiotics for sale in the "clinica international" (and the black
markets) and not available in the hospitals.
It seems the "boycoot" has nothing to do with it as the sale of food and
medicines is allowed.
What does influence the shortages is the priorities the regime sets.
Note that a report of the communist party from 1987 reporting a poll made
by the communist party in Holguin (the famous "Boletin
Especial" of which a verbatim copy was published by CANF) revealed that out
of 10,756 polled 87.6 were unfavorable "an increase of 3% on the previous
year. The "medicos de la familia" were the best rated "only" 64.9%
unfavorable.
(Also quoted in Maurice Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University
Press, Nashville, 1994, p.125-126.)
A poll done while Cuba was still receiveing 25% of it's GNP in Soviet
subsidies.

PL
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:45:17 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:45:08 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 20:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Viernes 16 de marzo de 2007

=BFQu=E9 tiene que ver Ch=E1vez con el Mercosur?

=BFQu=E9 puede ayudar un loco con ideolog=EDa totalitaria y que se las
pasa diciendo idioteces en nombre de una ideolog=EDa obsoleta y absurda
y por supuesto da=F1ina a los intereses de los sudamericanos? =BFDe
qu=E9 nos tiene que defender este golpista de cuarta?
El acto realizado en Buenos Aires, con la venia de Kirchner y rodeado de
lo peor y lo m=E1s reaccionario de izquierda en momentos en que el
representante del pa=EDs m=E1s importante del mundo visitaba Uruguay es
una falta de respeto a decisiones soberanas de un gobierno
democr=E1tico.
Permitir que agrupaciones de terroristas, Quebracho y compa=F1=EDa vayan
a Uruguay a cometer destrozos, siempre con la venia del gobierno
argentino, es vergonzoso y no habla bien de la integraci=F3n proclamada
por Kirchner que apoya todo acto delictivo y luego quiere dialogar. Es
una farsa total.

Jos=E9 Antonio Manzi
***@hotmail.com

Link permanente: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/891976
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:16 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:56:58 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
AUDRY y
2007-03-19 21:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Bachelet viaja a M=E9xico

Bachelet ya estuvo en Guatemala y luego viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
La presidenta chilena Michelle Bachelet llega este lunes a M=E9xico en
la segunda escala de una gira regional.
Bachelet pas=F3 el fin de semana en Guatemala y despu=E9s de M=E9xico
viajar=E1 a Panam=E1.
En una entrevista publicada por el peri=F3dico mexicano "El Universal"
en la v=EDspera de su llegada a ese pa=EDs, Bachelet dijo que busca
establecer una relaci=F3n "m=E1s estrat=E9gica" entre ambos pa=EDses.
La mandataria tambi=E9n expres=F3 que a las dos naciones las unen lazos
"hist=F3ricos".
La presidenta chilena -que permanecer=E1 en M=E9xico hasta el
mi=E9rcoles- se reunir=E1 con su colega Felipe Calder=F3n para firmar
acuerdos bilaterales y ser=E1 condecorada con la Orden Mexicana del
=C1guila Azteca como un reconocimiento a su esfuerzo por mejorar la
relaci=F3n bilateral.
Bachelet tambi=E9n se reunir=E1 con empresarios mexicanos y viajar=E1 a
la ciudad norte=F1a de Monterrey, donde inaugurar=E1 una c=E1tedra en
una universidad en honor a la escritora chilena Gabriela Mistral.
"Apoyo"
Durante su permanencia en Guatemala, la presidenta chilena ofreci=F3
"todo su apoyo" al gobierno de ese pa=EDs en su esfuerzo para
reestructurar su fuerza policial que, seg=FAn el mismo gobierno
guatemalteco, ha sido infiltrada por el crimen organizado.
Bachelet hizo el anuncio despu=E9s de una reuni=F3n con el presidente de
ese pa=EDs, Oscar Berger.
Ambos mandatarios tambi=E9n mostraron inter=E9s en destrabar en las
negociaciones para firmar un tratado de libre comercio entre los dos
pa=EDses.
La visitante tambi=E9n asisti=F3 a un encuentro en el que particip=F3
Rigoberta Mench=FA, la activista premiada con el premio Nobel de la paz
en 1992 y actual candidata a la presidencia guatemalteca.
BBC 3-19-07
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